DW ? Again

Did a search and am coming up blank. Just installed my 3" springs up front, had it aligned, tires rebalanced, etc. Here is the print out of my alignment:

Left Front
Camber: -0.4*
Caster: 6.3*
Toe: 0.03

Right Front
Camber: -0.4*
Caster: 6.1*
Toe: 0.04*

Cross Camber: -0.0*
Cross Caster: 0.2*
Total Toe: 0.07*

Didn't do new LCA's, it is a '00 sport if that matters. Before I went to 3" it rode fine no DW, now get DW all the time. Do I need new LCA's? Should I shim the LCA's? Any suggestions would be great!

Just happened to me on a vehicle I helped put the lift on. I'm not sure what kind of miles you have on yours. But, I would check or even replace your CA bushings. Jeep just released a TSB on shimmy after hitting a bump. They are replacing all 4 CAs and axle upper bushings.
Also, check to make sure steering is tight!
I'm not sure if the bushings are the problem, but they can be a definate cause for the problem.
After looking at your alignment your Camber is very low for 6* Caster. I've got about 3* Caster with the same Camber as you. And the Camber isn't adjustable without offset BallJoints. So what I'm thinking is your BallJoints are worn, check for play.
From what I've seen with my 00+ and others are they are very pissy!
Good luck! Rensing

Damn Tom, I must have Jinxed you.


Sorry Man, welcome to my pain.

What about trackbar length? I didn't adjust my trackbar because the wheels were centered after the lift. Would dialing out the trackbar work? Does anyone know what their trackbar length was with a 3" lift? I have the RE 1600 for 3" plus. Don't know. I only have 54000 on it. Ball joints, steering and CA bushings look good. Great, only 2 days to figure it out before NAC.

Is this bump induced or any time you hit the ~50MPH zone? If it's only when you hit bumps, check for loose steering and suspension parts. If it's only speed related, move your tires around and see what that does. Tire balance(dynamic) and roundness could be an issue. Check for wear on the inner or outer edges of the tires. Try dropping your tire pressure. Disconnect your stabilizer and test how it handles short-stroke movements. Check for loose steering box and track bar.

MaXJohnson said:

Is this bump induced or any time you hit the ~50MPH zone? If it's only when you hit bumps, check for loose steering and suspension parts. If it's only speed related, move your tires around and see what that does. Tire balance(dynamic) and roundness could be an issue. Check for wear on the inner or outer edges of the tires. Try dropping your tire pressure. Disconnect your stabilizer and test how it handles short-stroke movements. Check for loose steering box and track bar.

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Bumps over 45ish mph. With wife in car, no wobble over bumps but wobble when braking. Wife not in car, wobble over bumps, no when braking. I think that adjusting my trackbar length may help? Maybe? I didn't change it when I did the lift cuz it looked pretty level. I'm going to try letting out 1/2" and see what happens. Tires are new 4000 miles ago. Steering stablizer is new, OME. Tire pressure is same as before adding springs. All steering box bolts, other bolts tight. :dunno:

I just love it when you write a 500 word reply and you lose it cause the page expires before it's posted. :badpc:

In a nutshell, the cause of your DW is the change in control arm angles from the lift and increased unsprung mass from larger tires. You can't do much about that short of removing the lift, so you have to concentrate on what triggers DW and what dampens it. Changes in passenger or cargo weight can change the control arm angles a slight amount. Anti-dive forces from braking increase the effective spring rate of the front suspension. This can have an effect on the likelyhood of DW occuring.

The trigger can be large bumps or pot holes in the road, wheel balance or out-of-round tires, or tire wear causing cupping or wear to one edge (coning). These can create a torque about the steering axis which will trigger DW. Even at 4,000 miles, tires can wear uneven due to camber or toe being out of spec. Loose steering components can cause cupping on the tread edge. Try moving your tires around to experiment or swap tires with another Jeep to experiment with wheel offset and tire size. Changes in air pressure can change the effective spring rate; sometimes enought to reduce DW.

You can reduce or dampen DW by ensuring that all suspension and steering joints, bearings, bushing & parts are tight and in spec. Remove your stabilizer and test how it handles small motions. Who knows, you may have bought a bad one or knocked it out of comission hitting a big rut in the road.

tom the reason my truck has DW is for one it has a 6.5" short arm lift. im going to be either buying new lcas or drop brackets. i can only think that would be the problem with yours. you want your lcas to be as parallel to the ground as possible(right?).

tom, call me.

Dude...I get DW about once a year when the bolt securing the trackbar to the mount loosens up... I've hit it with breaker bars, pnuematics, torque wrenches, you name it... Just gotta check on it regularly

btw...I also have the RE trackbar

other culprits for me have been stabilizer or alignment related...

Maybe if ya get two wives you'll cure it... move to Utah

Gil BullyKatz said:

Maybe if ya get two wives you'll cure it... move to Utah

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I don't even know how to deal with the 1 I have, why give yourself twice the headache! :smoker:

hey beezil got a question for ya. when im at nac can you take a look at my front suspension and see why you think i would get such a horrible death wobble?

After lifting my XJ in August, I had the same prob and took it to two off-road shops. Both had the same answer: get a new track bar and torque her down properly. Haven't had it since.

As a note, all my steering components and bushings were replaced. Maybe all that work helped as well.

A little fat to chew on:
"It's not the size of a dog in a fight... it's the size of the fight in a dog." Is that the same as: "It's not the size of the ship, but the motion of the ocean.? Of which I reply: who's gonna fight a St. Bernard with a Chihuahua? or You're not going out in a hurricane with a rowboat.

:huh:

I am thinking that RE 1600 could be the culprit. Your alignment specs post lift look good, especially your castor, so I wouldn't worry about getting longer control arms. Is the trackbar new or used? Either way, be sure all the bolts are tighted to spec (axle mount, tracbar mount at the trackbar and all four at the frame). That joint on the RE 1600 isn't the greatest quality, and is usually the first part to go sloppy. Besides that, I reallly wouldn't think most of your bushings should be bad with so few miles, but might as well check, especially those in the steering components.

hey um...if ya want an extra pair o hands and eyes before the next "midwest BBQ" and try to fix it, lemme know, weekends are good

I'll bring beer

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9164

try this link for DW discussion. I would recommend getting some adjustable CAs, and backing the castor off to arround 4.5 to 5 degrees for that lift height. as mentioned before the CA arm angles of a forward facing control arm is a big problem. this is because when the CAs are horizontal at stock height and the suspention travel is mostly vertical, but as the vehicle is lifted the control arms are angled and there is now a horizontal component added to the wheel travel. this horizontal movement causes problems with what Caster is doing to produce stability. It is no longer a stock vehicle when lifted and stock alignment settings of caster on the high end can cause problems .

Cured!!! Twas the trackbar length. I turned it out 1/2-5/8" and no more DW. My thought is that it was unloading the passenger wheel, letting it bounce. Ball joints, u joints, CA bushings all ok. Steering stab also checked out ok. Thanks for all the help, everyone!!! Including BC! :thumbup:

Urban Redneck said:

Cured!!! Twas the trackbar length. I turned it out 1/2-5/8" and no more DW. My thought is that it was unloading the passenger wheel, letting it bounce. Ball joints, u joints, CA bushings all ok. Steering stab also checked out ok. Thanks for all the help, everyone!!! Including BC! :thumbup:

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good stuff.

you were cuttin it close!

how did those t-bar mounting points feel?

lca/uca's?

MuddinXJ said:

hey beezil got a question for ya. when im at nac can you take a look at my front suspension and see why you think i would get such a horrible death wobble?

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I'd be more than happy to look, but i am no suspension answerman.....

Beezil said:

good stuff.

you were cuttin it close!

how did those t-bar mounting points feel?

lca/uca's?

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Everyone is happily tight...[insert your own joke here].

party1: