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Big Red
April 14th, 2004, 08:59
I just replaced my steering on my xj when I installed a built dana 30 and I was just wondering how easy/or hard it is to install the steering above the knuckles rather than under it as it the stock set-up? Would it be possible to just mount the system above the knuckes or do extensive mods have to be done to rework the system? Just wondering. The xj steering system is pretty straight forward.

ChuckD
April 14th, 2004, 10:06
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23172&highlight=otk+steering

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22190&highlight=otk+steering


Searching is fun, ;)

OT
April 14th, 2004, 18:58
I just replaced my steering on my xj when I installed a built dana 30 and I was just wondering how easy/or hard it is to install the steering above the knuckles rather than under it as it the stock set-up? Would it be possible to just mount the system above the knuckes or do extensive mods have to be done to rework the system? Just wondering. The xj steering system is pretty straight forward.

The over the knuckle tie rod flip from Goferit Off Road (http://www.goferitoffroad.com/products.htm) is easy to do and raises the tie rod about 2 to 3 inches and the price is right. I'm very happy with mine.

OT
April 14th, 2004, 22:05
Shimmy wanted to see a picture, so here it is with an Alumiflex tie rod.

http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=108984&img=HPIM0182.jpg

shimmy
April 15th, 2004, 10:43
awesome man, how much does that little conversion cost? is it really as simple as $20 and unbolt/weld and you're done?

brandon

OT
April 15th, 2004, 15:42
awesome man, how much does that little conversion cost? is it really as simple as $20 and unbolt/weld and you're done?

brandon
Almost that simple. You do have to drill the TRE hole out to 3/4" before you can insert the insert. Other than that, yup it's that simple.

Oh yeah, they say to tack it in, but I urgently recommend you lay a bead all the way around the lip. If your tack job doesn't get into the knuckle well, the insert will come off with the TRE the 1st time you try removing it, and that's a bitch to get off without damaging the rubber bootie.

bheit4x4
April 15th, 2004, 19:03
would this still be this easy if i have tj style steering (wheel to wheel tie rod )

OT
April 15th, 2004, 19:08
would this still be this easy if i have tj style steering (wheel to wheel tie rod )
It seems it would work if you did the flip on both ends.

tysonxj
April 15th, 2004, 22:26
** stupid question alert **
So for an XJ you only install this on the driver side?

Dirk Pitt
April 15th, 2004, 23:18
** stupid question alert **
So for an XJ you only install this on the driver side?

correct

gmanxj
April 16th, 2004, 16:17
I thought that to correct the steering issues, the steering should be on top on the passenger side. Does doing just the driver side affect the steering that much? Those inserts can be used on the passenger side, right?

Thanks

ChuckD
April 16th, 2004, 17:23
The only way to make it work so that you can use the Goforit inserts on both side would be to find European/right side driver steering links and flip them. Or you can design/make new links that will work also, but since your drilling your knuckles anyway, you can go with Heims or even larger TRE's and not use the inserts at all..

If you put the drag link end ontop of the knuckle you are going to have to do the same with the Tarckbar mount on the axle end.

I will soon have some pictures of my setup when it is done, hopely the beginning of May. New links, inverted Y, with Heims over-the-knuckle and ORGS TB relocation bracket.

Goatman
April 16th, 2004, 20:07
** stupid question alert **
So for an XJ you only install this on the driver side?

No, you have to do it on both sides. The steering has to be moved over the knuckle on both sides. You also have to move the track bar up to keep the steering geometry correct and not cause bumpsteer, and you have to move the sway bar links up because the raised steering links will hit them. ORGS (now JKS) makes all the parts to raise the track bar and the sway bar links.

TJ steering is not with the tie rod knuckle to knuckle, it is exactly the same as an XJ.

OT
April 16th, 2004, 20:30
No, you have to do it on both sides. The steering has to be moved over the knuckle on both sides. You also have to move the track bar up to keep the steering geometry correct and not cause bumpsteer, and you have to move the sway bar links up because the raised steering links will hit them. ORGS (now JKS) makes all the parts to raise the track bar and the sway bar links.

TJ steering is not with the tie rod knuckle to knuckle, it is exactly the same as an XJ.
Both sides.... no
Track bar......no
Bumpsteer.....no
Sway bar links.......yes
TJ......I dunno, I drive an XJ.

This upgrade is for factory links, which means a factory drag link cant be flipped. The only way to do this on the passenger side is to use a right hand drive drag link and flip IT.

If you have bumpsteer,which I don't, I don't think it would be from raising one end of the tie rod with this flip.

I have NO negative effects on mine with 6.5" of lift. Matter of fact, flipping the TRE actually levelled ot my TR.

YOUR actual results may vary.

IMHO, Jeep should have done it this way in the first place. But then I guess lots of stuff woulda been hitting.

Hey Goatman, Now that I think of it, I never used a sway bay in the furst place, but I did have to cut off my SB brackets. BUt like you said, JKS makes the correcting accessories.

scampbell53
April 17th, 2004, 07:39
Remember your steering is adjustable. And if you have any kind of lift you should have an adjustable or drop bracket for your track bar. If you flip the tie rods there should be enough adjustment in the drag link to compensate. The key to avoiding bumb steer is to get you drag link and track bar parrallel, traveling the same arc.
oh Do not get the rustys over the knuckle steering. It is good beefy stuff but if you have a lifted XJ is makes your steering angles suck.

LOCKED UP
April 17th, 2004, 13:52
The key to avoiding bumb steer is to get you drag link and track bar parrallel, traveling the same arc.

Which also means you want the draglink & tracbar the same length as a shorter piece doesn't follow the same arc as something longer.


or do this:
http://www.patricksnorton.com/cherokee/tech/leafsprung/after/IMG_0313.JPG
:dunce:

Goatman
April 17th, 2004, 14:36
Both sides.... no
Track bar......no
Bumpsteer.....no
Sway bar links.......yes
TJ......I dunno, I drive an XJ.

This upgrade is for factory links, which means a factory drag link cant be flipped. The only way to do this on the passenger side is to use a right hand drive drag link and flip IT.

If you have bumpsteer,which I don't, I don't think it would be from raising one end of the tie rod with this flip.

I have NO negative effects on mine with 6.5" of lift. Matter of fact, flipping the TRE actually levelled ot my TR.

Hey Goatman, Now that I think of it, I never used a sway bay in the furst place, but I did have to cut off my SB brackets. BUt like you said, JKS makes the correcting accessories.

You caught me not reading the whole thing. :)

I didn't see that what you were talking about only raises the drivers side. There is little advantage to doing that, although it's easily a good modification to pick up an inch or so of tie rod clearance.....I say an inch or so because you're raising one side about 2" and the other side stays the same. I'd do it if I had stock steering, although this does nothing to correct or improve steering angles.

I was referering to an OTK set up which is what the original question was. To improve steering angles both sides need to be raised, then the track bar needs to be raised, and so on. A right hand drive drag link can be ordered through the Jeep dealership, and would work with the Goforit inserts to flip the taper to the top of the knuckle. Really, this is a very simple way to gain clearance and improve angles using factory style parts, and using the ORGS stuff to raise the track bar and sway bar links would make this doable to anyone who had access to a welder, without any custom modifications. I still wouldn't recommend this with 35" or larger tires, the stock drag link just isn't up to the stress of tires over 33", and with a tall lift it's barely adequate for 33's.

OT
April 17th, 2004, 15:57
You caught me not reading the whole thing. :)

I didn't see that what you were talking about only raises the drivers side. There is little advantage to doing that, although it's easily a good modification to pick up an inch or so of tie rod clearance.....I say an inch or so because you're raising one side about 2" and the other side stays the same. I'd do it if I had stock steering, although this does nothing to correct or improve steering angles.

I was referering to an OTK set up which is what the original question was. To improve steering angles both sides need to be raised, then the track bar needs to be raised, and so on. A right hand drive drag link can be ordered through the Jeep dealership, and would work with the Goforit inserts to flip the taper to the top of the knuckle. Really, this is a very simple way to gain clearance and improve angles using factory style parts, and using the ORGS stuff to raise the track bar and sway bar links would make this doable to anyone who had access to a welder, without any custom modifications. I still wouldn't recommend this with 35" or larger tires, the stock drag link just isn't up to the stress of tires over 33", and with a tall lift it's barely adequate for 33's.
Thanks, now we're on the same page.:)