AJ's Rockrail troubles...

I just recived my AJ's SuperRails and so far have had quite a bit of trouble with them. I know AJ makes great products but my rock rails havent turned out so great up to now... The holes on the pinch seam mount are slightly lower than the pinch seam itself, they just wont line up. I e-mailed AJ about this 3 days ago but he is having many troubles with his E-mail and hasent been able to contact me so I posted the same thing on his board, I havent recived a reply there either so I thought some one here might be able to help me. Has any body had that problem with the pinch seam mount?

My other problem, wich kinda scares me...I decided to mount up the rockers with out drilling the pinch seam mount just to see how they would look. I also figured maybe I could weld some 1/4 steel running along the pinch seam so I can have something to bolt the rails on to. I drilled the holes into the frame and all is well, bolted on my passenger side rockrail and snuged up all the bolts, AJ say's not to make them too tight or else it will strip the frame and you'll be really screwed so I was carefull with that. However I grabed onto the rocker and tryed to move it thinking the frame mounts would be strong enough to hold a little pressure, the damn things move around... They have about 1/4" of play :shocked: . I would think that with the 2 frame mounts it would be strong enough for me to at least stand on it...Im scared of standing on it. I really hope that the pinch seam dosent have to support all the weight of my XJ when I land on a rock, I belive the pinch seam is only there to help out the frame mounts a little but it seems as if its going to do most of the work :doh: Any comments on all this? Is the pinch seam really what holds up most of the rockerguards? Any thoughts or ideas about why my pinch seam mounts wont line up?

All this kinda worries me sence I just paid 232 bucks for these things. :doh:

can you send me some pics?

[email protected]

you could re-drill the holes in a spot where they might line up.

the goal is to have the pinch seam support most of the weight, so that is cool. that is where rock rails get their strength...
I buil rockrails myself so I might be of some help...

I'll send you some Pic's Ryan...BTW, this is Brandon is you dident alreay know I was thinking of having you weld on my rockers if I end up takeing my XJ down to your place to have the fornt axle inspected.

I had similar troubles when I first started fitting my AJ's Super Rails.

Use a jack (two's even better!) to initially snuggle the rails into place. Get a friend to help, its a lot easier. Put the jack(s) under the rail, not the arms. Don't lift so hard that you get the truck light on the jack stands, but the rails should be firmly pressed against the rocker.

Make sure the "feet" of the rails fit tight and flat against the frame rail and tight up against the unibody. This may take some "persuasion" with a BFH on the feet or the frame rails or both. In my case it was both, one foot was slightly skewed in shipping, I think, and the frame rails were not flat in a couple spots. Don't beat on them while they're in position, that could get dangerous... take them down and make sure the truck is braced well before bashing on the frame rail.

That will accomplish a couple things: it takes the slop out of the mounting of the feet that you noticed, and it should help line up the holes on the pinch seam.

I still managed to strip out three of the holes while I was tightening the bolts. AJ suggests using a 17/64 bit IIRC, I recommend one a 64th smaller, the self-threading bolts will bite better into the frame rail. Even then, you'll probably strip some. The metal is quite thin and seems soft. No worries, get a larger bolt and tap a new new hole and try again. That worked really well for all three that I screwed up. I don't remember the exact size I used but I'll find out if you wish. You don't need to overtighten, just "gootentite".

If the holes on the pinch seam mount still don't line up, even after all that, the ball's in AJ's court, I suppose.

I'm really pleased with mine, I'd use them again or recommend them to anyone. Its satisfying to land hard on a rock and feel that solid thunk and know that those things have just saved your a$$. HTH!

Are you sure you're supposed to drill holes through the pinch seem?

I bet the holes in the tube line up flush with the bottom edge of the pinch seem. And the bolts probably have a large head. Just have the shaft of the bolt bump up against the bottom of the pinch seem tighten them down and squeeze the pinch seem.

Maybe/Maybe not? I've never seen AJ's.

If I remember correctly my ORGS MFG Super Nerfs don't use a hole, more of a notch/open bottom in the pinch seem, like an upside down "U".

These rails are designed to be mounted to the pinch seam, you have to drill holes. That's where the real strength of the rails are, at that connection. The frame rail feet are just for support.

I tryed using the jack method, dident work...heck...I bolted the rail to the frame, put the floor jack under the rail and stated lifting untill the XJ started going up with it, now the rail was smashed up about as high as it could go againest the XJ's rocker and the pinch seam holes still dont line up. It looks like the pinch seam mount was welded slightly too low. The holes are drilled as high as they can be. I went to go take some pictures but I cant find my camera right now. As soon as I get it I'll post some. For now I'll just make a cheesey drawing to help explain the problem.

what about moving the framerail mounts higher?

XJ's do vary from vehicle to vehicle, it could be that you got one that has a bummer pinch seam. I'll post pics of mine tomorrow, too.

btw, when I said to jack the thing in place, do that before bolting it to the frame rail, even before you drill the holes in the frame rail. Its too late for that now for you, but unbolt it and jack it into place, then make sure the feet are positioned correctly ... that's the only way I could get mine to square up well. If that changes anything, you'll have to drill new holes, probably oversize.

Pics tomorrow. Good luck, and I'm sorry you're having trouble with them.

As of right now they are up as high as they could go. I was thinking of grinding down some of the top of the mounts off. It also looked like the "T" shaped mount is welded on at a slight angle wich might be thowing things. I think that might be my only option, but its kinda silly to have to retro fit something you just paid $230 for. You would think sothing of that price would just bolt on, I never imagened I would be grinding, and hammering at a set of brand new rockrails because they dont fit! Im going to wait for a reply from AJ before I do anything drastic to these things, see if he has any input. Im not trying to bash on AJ's products, my rails are sweet looking and the welds on them are kick ass but they just dont fit right, or maybe Im doing something wrong...if I am I still havent figured it out.

I just bought a set of 2x4 rails from AJ. I think they're great!!
The holes that AJ drilled in the unirail mount were 1/2 in. The bolts that he sent were self tapping and smaller than the holes. I drilled 1/2 in holes all the way through the unirail and bolted them with 5 in long 1/2 dia bolts,nuts,washers. The holes drilled for the pinch seam mount were 5/16. The bolts that he sent were 1/4. I drilled the pinch seam to 5/16 and bought new bolts. Was all of that necessary??? I don't know yet we'll have to see. I do know that these babies aren't going anywhere. I didn't use any of the mounting hardware that was sent with the rails.
I don't have an answer for your problem with your pinch seam without seeing it.
One guestion... when you mounted the rails, where they level?? Even with the body?? I think that the way you described your problem ,I think that it would be better to weld another piece of steel to the pinch seam mount rather than the pinch seam itself.
Anyway good luck And keep us posted with the fix.

Has your XJ ever been in a side impact accident...even a samll one? Mine has, and that affected the fitamnet of the rails when I initially fitted them. To get them on correctly, fit the feet and drill them and mount them properly frst. Then put a jack at the pinch seam and jack the rail up until you can drill the pinch seam. I only have 2 pinch seam bolts on mine on the passenger side, and it has held up just fine. However, I also welded my feet to the unibody. And just today, I welded up the "super" part of the rail to the ones I have already.

Hope all goes well on the install of the rails.

Fergie

PS- AJ has a phone number you can call and talk to him at. Try taking care of it there before you bring product gripes to an open board. Nothing wrong with asking questions about the install, but try to bitch about the mfg and such.

Jack the rails up as high as you can...lift the XJ if you must....and simply redrill the holse in the rails so they are lined up with the pinch seam.....To answer your question....The pinch seam supports ALL the weight of the XJ on impact, the legs are there just to keep the rails stable so they don't rock up and down, if that makes sense. Teh way these rails are designed you could actually mount them without the lags, slam a rock and still be protected. But yes every XJ is very different, thats why fabbing like XJ does is not a perfect science, i would personally bolt the pinch seam first the the frame rails. also I understand you are having trouble contacting AJ...If you can't get them on keep trying..he is tremendsly busy and is hard to get a hold of sometimes, but if it was his fault he WILL fix it. Give him time.

96xjeeper says:

The pinch seam supports ALL the weight of the XJ on impact, the legs are there just to keep the rails stable so they don't rock up and down, if that makes sense.



WhytBear says:

"These rails are designed to be mounted to the pinch seam, you have to drill holes. That's where the real strength of the rails are, at that connection. The frame rail feet are just for support".

I say:

Most, if not all rocker guards mount in that area. But drilling through thin sheet metal doesn't give it it's strenth. The PINCH SEEM MOUNT just HOLDS the rocker guard in place, the STRENTH comes from the ROCKER ITSELF, not the seem.

My point is whether you drill a hole or a notch with an open bottom to attach it, it doesn't matter, almost all forces are from the bottom pushing upward. The strength comes from the tube sitting flat on the rocker. Rocker = strength.

Also, the feet against the frame rail will also add strength in side forces, not all forces are exactly straight up and down. It's the combination.

Fergie, I did smack the passenger side rocker once pretty good on a rock, I also thought that might be the problem but the funny part is that 2 holes under the part I hit actully line up. Further up, were the rocker is as it came from the factory they dont.

Also, Im not trying to bash AJ's products as I staed before. These rockrails kick ass, he is still building my front bumper and I'll be ordering a rear bumper from him too. He does great work, however I think I found a spot were he messed up on my rails.

On the front "T" mount on my passenger side rail is is slightly sideways. You cant tell just by looking at but but when you set it up in the mounting position you can see is slightly off. These are custom products that are hand welded so there is plenty of room for error, I think I can fix this by grinding off a bit from the top.

I bolted on the uni-rail mounts and started jacking up the XJ from the rocker, the 2 rear holes line up really good, the 3rd one is a little low but should be enough and then the last one is too low. The angle that is being caused by the frame mount is so slight you cant tell just by looking at it.

I havent hurd from AJ yet, thats why I posted here to get some ideas on how to fix this in the mean time.

I'll let you guys know how it goes, and I'll try and get some pictures up...hopefully I get them on soon, these suckers look awsome.

OK guys I got them on. For the passenger side I just bolted on the uni-rail mounts and jacked the XJ up untill the tires lifted, then the holes lined up ect. The drivers side was a breeze, it all went in how it was supposed to...well for the most part I did have to jack the XJ up from the rail a little for them to line up but no biggie. Now time to paint them!

Here I went and crawled under my Jeep in the rain to get you pics, too. :laugh:

They're here if you wish.

Congrats and I'm real glad it worked out well, I think you'll be real pleased. :yelclap:

btw, that's red clay mud that looks like rust on my rails. The camera flash made the mud look astonishingly like rust. I had to go back out and check again after I took the pics.

I didnt read all of the replys so this may have been covered. I have AJ's rails and I had the same pinch seam issues that you have. I may be wrong but I think the point of mounting to the pinch seam is to distribute the load more evenly when you land on the rails. I do not think that they are needed to hold the rail up to the frame. Out of the ~8 bolts maybe 1-2 of mine looked like the diagram that you posted but the rest are in there good. I have had them on for a while with no problems, and I have landed on the a few times and they have held up just fine.
There are a few pics here:http://community.webshots.com/album/66734470emfyMs

I made my own rails that attach to the frame rails but at rest are about 1/4 to 1/2" below the pinch seam. When I pivot on my rails they flex up to the pinch seam which then takes the load. I've had them on for about 3 yrs with no probs what-so-ever. If I stand on them or kick them they do move as you said but when they push up, mine work as desired.