Hydraulic Clutch Question

Just installed new clutch and internal slave on 1988 XJ, 4.0 engine, BA10/5 Trannie. Last slave was leaking. Am unfamiliar with hydraulic clutches, and was wondering if someone with same could tell me how far the cluch pedal should depress before feeling any resistance. The old clutch would almost go all the way to the floor before I could shift. The new cluch, after bleeding, doesnt feel much better. Is this normal for a hydraulic clutch? Also when I installed new clutch, It didn't seem like there was enough resistance on the pressure plate as I tightened the bolts. Anyone's help would be appreciated.

Could be your clutch master cylinder. I have a 90 4.0 with the concentric bearing (I think that its the same as an internal slave). The bearing started leaking and the pedal would go down all the way to the floor before I could shift, then one day at a stop light in rush hour traffic in August (105 degrees that day) it completely went out. Changed it, everything good. For a while I had been noticing a drop of oil on my left shoe, didnt think much of it. Then one day I thought to look under the dash. Pushrod from clutch master cylinder coated with brake fluid. It started going all the way to the floor again and felt exactly the same as the concentric bearing going out. Installed new clutch master cylinder and everything good again. Didnt change clutch and pressure plate when I changed the bearing because it was failry new. Shifts just fine. Clutch master cylinder removal and installation not too bad, but top bolt on the master cylinder is a little tough to get to. I recommend using a swivel with your ratchet and socket, makes life a little easier. Might also get a friend to help bleed, took me several attempts to get it right. Good luck.

90red

Thanx 90red, but I forgot to mention that I had already installed a new master cylinder before I did the clutch job. It had a lot of sediment in it so I thought it would be wise to change it. What I was most curious about was the pedal travel before I felt any resistance, as this is my first Jeep and was unfamiliar with hydraulic clutches. I bled it several times after I quit getting air from the line, but it still seems like it travels too far until any real resistance is felt. The old clutch, which was not in that bad of shape, did the same. It shifted with no problems, but thought it should disengage at a higher pedal travel. How far does yours travel before you feel any resistance? Thanks: Don

I feel resistance almost immediately, but I probably get a little past 3/4 of the way down before the clutch will disengage. I am like you, I dont have a lot of experience with the hydraulic clutch system, and have only owned my XJ for about 9 months now, so I am slowly learning how the XJ works and fails. If your jeep shifts good and doesnt lose fluid, then it may be normal. I wish I could be of more help.

90red

Thanks again 90red: My clutch travel sounds about like yours. I just finished it and tried it out and no clutch. I then applied clutch hard for a few times and heard something snap. I then had a clutch and could shift. May have been the bands on the slave finally came loose. I still lose a little pedal until I pump them up, but will try bleeding again since the bands on slave may have been keeping me from getting a good bleed? ?????? Worth a try. Will let you know the results. Thanks again.

I would also add that leaking master cylinders have been responsible for ruined wiring terminal blocks as well. Check your fuse blocks after you have a leak.

rattler43 said:

Thanks again 90red: My clutch travel sounds about like yours. I just finished it and tried it out and no clutch. I then applied clutch hard for a few times and heard something snap. I then had a clutch and could shift. May have been the bands on the slave finally came loose. I still lose a little pedal until I pump them up, but will try bleeding again since the bands on slave may have been keeping me from getting a good bleed? ?????? Worth a try. Will let you know the results. Thanks again.

Click to expand...

When I installed my concentric bearing, I was unsure what to do about the bands. One set of instructions said to undo the bands before installing, another said to leave them alone and they will snap off when you press the clutch for the first time. I decided to undo the bands before installation. I now can understand how it was giving you so much grief. I hope that fixes your problem and you get lots of good miles out of your new clutch and accessories.

90red

90red: My instructions said under no circumstances remove the bands. Just got back from LA and tried clutch. No clutch and cant pump up any clutch. Going to bleed it again today. Also did some research on the web and found out that the concentric clutch is notorious for being hard to get all the air out. Recommendations included pressure bleeding and a procedure called reverse bleeding. For reverse bleeding you use a small oilcan and a short piece of clear tubing to fit over your bleeder valve. You then pump fluid into the bleeder from the bottom and force the air up to your reservoir. Think I might try this method. Will let you know if it works.

Rattler, There is a mity vac unit for that. it is for brakese and clutches. i think it sells for about $50-$60 at JC Whitney. Seems like I saw it in the 4WD Hardware or Quadratech Catalog too. Basically you fill it with fluid and pump the fluid up into the sytem. IMHO that best way to bleed a clutch!

Thanks Ghost: Will look into that.

This is it!

http://www.4wd.com/shopwrangler/DisplayProduct.asp?ProductSKU=0252

Well that is one of the ones out there. Harbor freight also has the Mity Vac one I believe.

rattler43 said:

90red: My instructions said under no circumstances remove the bands. Just got back from LA and tried clutch. No clutch and cant pump up any clutch. Going to bleed it again today. Also did some research on the web and found out that the concentric clutch is notorious for being hard to get all the air out. Recommendations included pressure bleeding and a procedure called reverse bleeding. For reverse bleeding you use a small oilcan and a short piece of clear tubing to fit over your bleeder valve. You then pump fluid into the bleeder from the bottom and force the air up to your reservoir. Think I might try this method. Will let you know if it works.

Click to expand...

I guess I am really lucky then. That mity vac sounds like a very good tool to have around. I might have to pick one up myself. Good luck Rattler43.

90red

Please keep updating this story! I am having the same problem (bleed and still losing clutch action) Want to know how all stories turn out... - TJ

Well, back to square one. Bled system really good this morning. Got fantastic clutch. Parked jeep for a few hours and no clutch again and couldn't pump up any. Tomorrow the new master cylinder goes back to dealer while it is still under warranty. Only thing I can think it is now..No visible leaks and reservoir stays full. Will post back on results.

This sounds like the problems I had with my 89 and that clutch. By the way, the leaks down onto the fuseblock can lead to some pretty nasty electrical problems so definitely make sure yours didn't get leaked on.

I ended up going through something like 3 master cylinders and 2 slaves or something along those lines - finally found out that the auto store master cylinders that year had something like a 99% failure rate. Went to the dealer and got one, and that was the last time I had a problem with it. That was a few years ago now, but I believe the master cylinder was the last one we replaced.

Actually, that's not entirely true because the day after getting the last set of master and slave cylinders into the Jeep I again ended up with no clutch. It seems that after 8 (?) years of running within a few inches of the exhaust that the rubber line between master and slave had finally given up the ghost. If you pull one of the clutch cylinders again, grab the line as well. Make sure you know which tranny you have though because the parts guys didn't know the difference that time...

since we're on hydraulic clutch ?'s can anyone tell me why when i get my jeep in water, like a water crossing, why when i go to depress the clutch to shift gears it sticks all the way down, and when it comes back up you have to get pressure back in it by lightly pushing on it. this can get very frustrating when your offroading. anyone have this problem?

Well fellers, I took master cylinder (which I purchased in Oct.) back to AutoZone and they gave me another new one(no hassles). Installed it and bled it and the slave again. Got the best pedal I have ever had. Still working good at this time.(keeping fingers and eyes crossed) Think I may have problem solved. I think Yuccaman was right on generic masters. Thanks again fellows for all the input and advice. It helps to talk to someone who has had similar problems when you are ready to start the gnashing of teeth. Thanks again. Don

Update on AutoZone Clutch Master Cylinder....Last week I went out to start the jeep and found fluid on the drivers side floor. You guessed it, Master Cylinder was leaking..Lasted about 4 months. AutoZone Master Cylinders, with their 90 day warranty, are pure junk. Waste of money. Went to my local Car Quest and for a little more money got a lifetime warrantied one. Petal has a lot more resistance and feels more like a real clutch now. At least, now if the thing goes out, I can get it replaced free. Just to let everyone know to not try and scrimp on this item. Go for the lifetime warranty. Also, be advised that the install instructions on the CarQuest Master Cylinder says "Do not bench bleed". It says to bleed it after installing it. I make reference to this because many of you out there in this forum say to bench bleed them before installing. Read your install instructions carefully.