Long arms affect on Anti Squat etc.

CW · Nov 3, 2003

With all of the research I have been doing on 4-links, I have started to wonder what effect my longarms had on the charactoristics of my rig. In all the research I did on the longarms, no one ever mentioned anything about anything. It kind of bothers me that so many people build them and have no clue what effects it will have. How do I figure the anti squat and roll axis changes? What should I be using as the COG for an xj in the equations? I just want to build a balanced rig, is it important that the front and rear are near the same numbers?

Beezil · Nov 3, 2003

need a BUNCH more info than you provided!

do a search on the subject...

theres been a ton of good naxja posts.

ed stevens posted a whallop of a post that i've read about 20 times and still only half-understand it.

in order for you to have any idea what is gong on with your jeep, you MUST do the exercise of measuring everything, and begin plotting your lines and angles to find the answers you are looking for.

CRASH · Nov 3, 2003

Even after Beezil did all that research, plotting, and measuring, he still went ass-over-teakettle.

Trial and error, it's the breakfast of champions.

CRASH

Beezil · Nov 4, 2003

when in doubt, copy off of someone else with half a clue.

Goatman · Nov 4, 2003

CW. said:
In all the research I did on the longarms.......... It kind of bothers me that so many people build them and have no clue what effects it will have.

You said that very well.......what I've been trying to say all along.

hpi_jeep · Nov 4, 2003

Beezil said:
when in doubt, copy off of someone else with half a clue.

that means i should start on my 3link wishbone front!

CRASH · Nov 4, 2003

When I did mine, there was only one other set out there, Farmer Matt's.

It would be a leap to say he had "half a clue".

CRASH

CW · Nov 4, 2003

OK, im going to sketch it up and get it all figured out (hopefully). What should I use for the COG? The top of the bell housing?

Beezil · Nov 4, 2003

actually, I wasn't even trying to be witty.

seriously, if studying becomes boring, and the test is tommorow morning, fawk getting the cliff notes, just look at the answers that are on the geeks test paper.

that's how I got my ass to moab.

its really fun and cool to try to come up with new concepts, or start a project from scratch with a half-understanding, but that can turn into a huge pile of shit really quick when your clever ideas don't work....

maybe the first step should be to see what other people have done, and imitate, copy or reproduce which parts actually work in a real-world situation. sometimes all the research in the world can't bring you to a FULL understanding of how something works until you can see it for real.... get out on trail with a group of rigs that really work well, and see what's going on underneath.

Beezil · Nov 4, 2003

the theoretical COG that most people use is an imaginary space just behind the top bellhousing bolts.....

of course, every vehicle is different, and its a good place to start

CW · Nov 4, 2003

I already built the longarms.

And they worked great for the two weeks I had them on before my engine took a sh@#

I just want to figure out what they actually did, and figure out why they work. That way when I build other link setups I have a baseline of charactoristics I know perform well. I know I am probably thinking to much.

Beezil · Nov 4, 2003

longarms have been the prime suspect in blowing motors for years, we're only just beginning to understand the root causes....

CW · Nov 4, 2003

I'm sure the 300,000k on the engine and the retard with a lead foot behind the wheel had nothing to do with it. The bottom end actually looks great, the head is a different story.

Beezil · Nov 4, 2003

your next step should be to eliminate the retard. your jeep will be better off

FarmerMatt · Nov 4, 2003

CRASH said:
When I did mine, there was only one other set out there, Farmer Matt's.

It would be a leap to say he had "half a clue".

CRASH

Coming from you I'll take that as a compliment. In all reality I just copied the ford boys that I hang around with. The longer arm gave more travel with a flatter arch to the travel. Besides it's a very simple & clean design to work with. What more do you need to know.

Hey Goatman, why don't you explain to us the suspension dynamics of your design.

Better put on the rubber iirigating boots cause this could get deep. After that lets go run wrecking ball again. I just love to watch Big Bird get winched up the last fall.

Matt

Goatman · Nov 4, 2003

Matt, if imitation is the highest form of flattery......I'm very flattered.

My irrigating boots are in retirement until Surprise Canyon opens up again.

I'm not leading Wrecking Ball again for awhile, I don't want to be the guinea pig, let me follow you next time........one day, I am going to make it up that waterfall, with all of the rocks thrown out.

92xjsp · Nov 4, 2003

Hey CW I hope you’ll post your calculations and lay out your thinking when you get comfortable with it. I’m way behind you but I’m trying to take the same approach of figuring out why things do what they do. I think Beezil’s right to an extent in that you look at what works well as a starting point, benefit from other people’s trial and error. But the real world is all math in the end and if you can figure out mathematically why something worked well but something else blew up, that might give you an idea the trial-and-error crowd never would have thought of. Look forward to reading your calculations.

Long arms affect on Anti Squat etc.

CW

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