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Dana 44 front swap question...

BillR

BillR

Toy Jeep driver!
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
IF I decided ;) to build a front 44 for my XJ using a Ford HP housing and Waggy axles, what is the best way to address the issue of different bolt patterns for the front and rear ends? The Bronco rotors would be 5 on 5 1/2, and any stock rear I used (8.25, XJ44) would be 5 on 4 1/2. Is there a way to convert the front to 5 on 4 1/2 WITHOUT going to the cheesy Bronco2 manual hubs, or do I need to get the rear axles redrilled and use different drums?
What's the scoop?
TIA!
 
Ues a Ford 9" :)

That is an option or a Waggy D44 or AMC 20. And no the Waggy AMC 20 is not like the CJ 20! :)
 
There is no way to get the front to 5 on 4.5" without sacrificing strength. Your best bet is to have your rear axles drilled for 5 on 5.5", or better yet, it's a good excuse to swap in some Dutchman or Superior shafts that are drilled 5 on5.5".

CRASH
 
CRASH said:
There is no way to get the front to 5 on 4.5" without sacrificing strength. Your best bet is to have your rear axles drilled for 5 on 5.5", or better yet, it's a good excuse to swap in some Dutchman or Superior shafts that are drilled 5 on5.5".

CRASH
Click to expand...
Can they do that with an XJ 44? What do I use for drums? Custom?
This sounds interesting...:thumbup:
 
Bill, take this opportunity to say good bye to 5 on 4.5" forever.

If you go 5 on 5.5" or 6 on 5.5" you can use a full size truck 3/4 ton hub.

Another way to make the rear work is to use a wheel spacer/adapter. The spacer will bolt to your 5 on 4.5" and adapt to the 5 on 5.5".
Spacers are not ideal but I run them myself on the rear axle and have never had a problem.
You'll need a spacer thickness that covers the wheel stud length (probably 1.25" or so).

Spacers run around $50/wheel.
 
Tell me about these spacers.
I assume they go OUTSIDE the drum, rotor, etc?
 
BillR said:
Can they do that with an XJ 44? What do I use for drums? Custom?
This sounds interesting...:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Before I put in a Tera60, I had changed my XJ D44 to 5 on 5.5. I ordered Dutchman shafts and had the stock brake drums re-drilled to the larger bolt pattern. The only problem with doing this is that the diameter of the axle flange needs to be smaller than Dutchman normally makes it so the drum would fit properly. Dutchman did it for me, and also beveled the edge of the flange, and used screw in rather than press in studs because there was less material on the outside of the axle flange. A machine shop re-drilled the drums for a few dollars, and it worked perfectly. For awhile, Dutchman had my axle specs, and a couple of guys ordered the same thing, but that has been quite awhile now.

If you order a D44 from an axle builder, just get it with the 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern and larger brakes, either 11" drums or discs.
 
Goatman said:
Before I put in a Tera60, I had changed my XJ D44 to 5 on 5.5. I ordered Dutchman shafts and had the stock brake drums re-drilled to the larger bolt pattern. The only problem with doing this is that the diameter of the axle flange needs to be smaller than Dutchman normally makes it so the drum would fit properly. Dutchman did it for me, and also beveled the edge of the flange, and used screw in rather than press in studs because there was less material on the outside of the axle flange. A machine shop re-drilled the drums for a few dollars, and it worked perfectly. For awhile, Dutchman had my axle specs, and a couple of guys ordered the same thing, but that has been quite awhile now.

If you order a D44 from an axle builder, just get it with the 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern and larger brakes, either 11" drums or discs.
Click to expand...
That sounds good. So the drums are stock units, and just redrilled for that bolt pattern. Is it just the Duchman axles that come stock with too large of a flange? I see why they're larger than a stock XJ 44, as the bolt pattern is larger.
Do you remember what they charged you for a set of these axles?
Thanks.
 
BillR said:
Tell me about these spacers.
I assume they go OUTSIDE the drum, rotor, etc?
Click to expand...
You bolt the spacer onto your wheel studs. the spacer has it's own wheel studs for the new bolt pattern. On the outside of the drum of course.

It will mean your track width on the rear is about 2.5" wider.

Wheel Spacers/Adapters link
 
I had Moser make a set of rear D44 shafts with 6x5.5" pattern....other specs same as XJ D44 shafts. The flange sits flush inside the Grand Cherokee rear disc rotor....which I had drilled to the same pattern. The axle flange didn't need to be bevelled for the GC discs, but as Goatman mentioned, they should be for the XJ drums.
 
Dutchman gets about $300 for a set of alloy axles that are 35%-40% stronger than stock. This includes new bearings, retainers and seals.

CRASH
 
When I ordered my Dutchman D-44 shafts, they couldn't find Goatman's info. I did also had the flanges beveled, and used screw in studs. They should still have the numbers if you give 'em my name.
Jon Kaczmarski
 
Re: Re: Ues a Ford 9" :)

VegasAnthony said:
so what involved in using a ford 9"

what year and model do I look for??
Click to expand...
As someone who currently runs a 9 incher, I can't reccomend it for anyone running huge lift...now or in the future.
The nine has a low pinion, sometimes up to 2" below what other axles offer.

This can be addressed with a hi-pinion kit from Currie, but you lose the ring gear strength (8.8 compared to full 9") and it's a high dollar case ($400) and new ring and pinion ($), plus install if you can't do it ($$).

I run a 119" WB and mine is at the max now. I can only imagine the same axle and lift on a shorter wheelbase.
 
spacers are a good simple way to change bolt patterns. i was in a pinch and needed some and got hem from spidertrax.com. if i had some time, i would have gone through www.rockbuggysupply.com they were by far the least expensive with the same quality of any wheelspacer/adapter retailer i priced out. they had a deal going with the pirate vendor showcase where you could get a pair of adapters/spacers for 89 bucks + shipping.

Hunter
 
Re: Re: Re: Ues a Ford 9" :)

STRYKER said:
As someone who currently runs a 9 incher, I can't reccomend it for anyone running huge lift...now or in the future.
The nine has a low pinion, sometimes up to 2" below what other axles offer.

This can be addressed with a hi-pinion kit from Currie, but you lose the ring gear strength (8.8 compared to full 9") and it's a high dollar case ($400) and new ring and pinion ($), plus install if you can't do it ($$).

I run a 119" WB and mine is at the max now. I can only imagine the same axle and lift on a shorter wheelbase.
Click to expand...

Just to add.
I've run a few 9 inchers. I would agree for shorter wheel base vehicles like a CJ but I've not experienced any problems and even have friends who wheel 9s on their CJs. The CJ guys use double carden style DS to make up for the high drive line angle.

My 102" WB Scrambler ran a 9 and my current 107" WB Cherokee runs one too. Both had/have 38s and 8"+ lift. And on both I ran regular old U-joint yokes.

The low pinion on the 9 is far from ideal but it's not a deal breaker.

I agree on the Currie high pinion 9s. The biggest weakness though is actually in the loss of the third pinion bearing; the same feature that makes the 9's R&P so strong in the first place. The HP 9s have none.
 
Yes it is a low pinion and.....

Yes you can get a high pinion from currie. I am looking at a 74-86 F 150's and have found a 78 2WD F150 that I might get. (Got to confirm that it has 31 spline shafts first.) You can also shave the 9" and increase its ground clearance and get 40 spline shafts, and 35 spline and 31. The versatilitly is out the window on this axle. There are more ratios available then just about any axle (all the way to 6.0) if you can find a front to run that low! My research so far is that with a reverse D44 I can run 5.13 gears in the 9" D44 combo. Still in the research stage on the D44 though. But the versatilitly of the 9" and the fact that it is used so much has put me on to it. spare parts can be found anywhere! Just my .02!
 
Gearing options are always nice, but do not fool yourself into thinking you can shave very much off of a 9" housing. It is the pinion itself that is so much lower than other designs. In all likelyhood, you ain't gonna hurt even a 28 spline niner with an XJ - all those other high-dollar parts would be nice insurance but not necessary... ;) All that beef will be worthless when your rear diff is hanging ya up all the time on the trail - and it will

If you have extra change to spend, go for a 60R or such and call it done.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ues a Ford 9" :)

C-ROK said:
Just to add.
I've run a few 9 inchers. I would agree for shorter wheel base vehicles like a CJ but I've not experienced any problems and even have friends who wheel 9s on their CJs. The CJ guys use double carden style DS to make up for the high drive line angle.

My 102" WB Scrambler ran a 9 and my current 107" WB Cherokee runs one too. Both had/have 38s and 8"+ lift. And on both I ran regular old U-joint yokes.

The low pinion on the 9 is far from ideal but it's not a deal breaker.

I agree on the Currie high pinion 9s. The biggest weakness though is actually in the loss of the third pinion bearing; the same feature that makes the 9's R&P so strong in the first place. The HP 9s have none.
Click to expand...

I also ran a 1982 Scrambler with a 9" out back. The thing to watch is how much the rear has to be shimmed to line up with the double cardan driveshaft. Too much lift and shims pulls the pinion bearings above the lubrication pool. You can always pull it up on a hill to overfill it, but then you're really testing your axle seals.

I appreciate your info about the 8.8 third member not using a third pinion bearing. I had overlooked this info. Is the pinion shaft not long enough to accomodate one, or is it that there is no machhining on the shaft to accept one? I've never seen one of the Currie pinion housings up close enough to know this.
 
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