• NAXJA is having its 18th annual March Membership Drive!!!
    Everyone who joins or renews during March will be entered into a drawing!
    More Information - Join/Renew
  • Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Suspension Advice

Rwalk1987

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Houston TX
So here's the situation. This my first rock crawler build but I was a mechanic while.going t school. I am heading to Moab in about 6 weeks. Been working on it for almost a year and it feels like a death trap to me and I am looking for some advice. Here are the details.

2000 Jeep XJ
6.5 inch Long arm from Iron Rock Off-road
1 ton over the knuckle tie rods
Rubicon express track bar JKS sway bar links
Full frame reinforcement from Hooligan
Adjustable rear shackles

It feels like something is loose and I have gone over everything on it. I just had the alignment done this weekend and I only have 2 degrees of caster. I believe this is my problem. The caster adjusted on the lift is maxed out. After looking at a few things online I have come up with a couple things and was hoping for some input.

1. Cut the lower control arm mounts from the axle and relocate. ( Might not be possible based on the lift type. Needs further research.)

2. Cut upper link on control arm and replace with an adjustable heim joint or something similar.

3. Install caster bolts on lower control arms. (Will help but I don't think I am going to get 6 degrees of caster out of it.)

4. Hope somebody here has a better idea.

5. The control arms are adjustable. Will extending it and pushing the axle further out help. I wasn't sure since the upper arm is connected to it.

Thanks in advaced
 
When you did the over the knuckle steering did you move the track bar to above the axle?
Also 2 degrees caster no where near enough. My factory service manual shows an acceptable range from 5 to 8 degrees. 7 being preferred but pinion angle is important. I was looking at the iron rock Offroad long arm kits. The only thing the pictures showed is a rotating looking bracket on the drivers side. No other adjustments. What needs to happen is the top of the axle where the upper control arm mounts needs to pivot toward the rear of the Jeep. Have you contacted Iron Rock Offroad before you cut up anything.
There are offset upper ball joints I think up to 2 degrees but I would do that last resort.
If Iron rock is no help modify the upper control arm using a modified upper adjustable control arm. Look at the picture I loaded. You'll need the u shaped pieces to go the axle and look at the nut and there is a threaded shaft. That's the only thing I come up with. But as I said contact Iron Rock first before you modify.
80c6f02a1edb2f668e515679a6f9fd16.jpg
8244b4166f2d9e6aea44ce90c518c740.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
A phone call to them is definitely the first thing I will do for sure.

No the track bar on the axle side is still in the factory location- the rubicon express track bar uses a drop bracket off the frame. It's a tight fit but there is about 1 inch between the track bar and the tie rod.

The u-bracket with adjustable sleeve into the upper control arm was my favorite option at this point. This would replace that adjustment bracket that is on the upper control arm.
 
If you went over the knuckle without raising the track bar axle mount that is a high priority. You would have considerable bump steer. I've run 4 degrees caster and it's not bad. Maybe a little wander but totally manageable. If you can adjust the control arms for that I'd run it.
 
Well Iron Rock says i should be able to get between 3.5 to 5.5 degrees of caster or somewhere around there. however they have no idea why i cant get to where i need to be.

I did order a Track bar relocation bracket. Hopefully that get here this week and i can get it installed this weekend.
 
Well Iron Rock says i should be able to get between 3.5 to 5.5 degrees of caster or somewhere around there. however they have no idea why i cant get to where i need to be.

I did order a Track bar relocation bracket. Hopefully that get here this week and i can get it installed this weekend.

You don't want or need a relocation bracket ( I could lend mine that I've had almost 20yrs now and it always comes back)!!! As far as your castor, the LP D30 has IIRC, 1* degree less (built-in). I've been running a LA set-up (on my 2k) for 17yrs with about 3* castor and zero driving issues! If your still having issues, the offset bj's are the answer!
 
You don't want or need a relocation bracket ( I could lend mine that I've had almost 20yrs now and it always comes back)!!! As far as your castor, the LP D30 has IIRC, 1* degree less (built-in). I've been running a LA set-up (on my 2k) for 17yrs with about 3* castor and zero driving issues! If your still having issues, the offset bj's are the answer!


I was actually thinking about those today. Maybe those plus some adjustable caster/camber bolts on the lower control arms.

why do you say i dont need the track bar bracket.i was going to go with the JKS unit that is actuall welded to the axle.

http://jksmfg.com/i-17397012-fab-trackbar-relocation-bracket.html?ref=category:381077
 
Last edited:
6.5" is a lot of lift for a LP30. It is impossible to get the caster anywhere near 5 degrees without cutting and rotating the Cs.
My 2001, @ 4" of lift, had 2 degree of caster, when the front axle pinion was set to 1 degree or less. It didn't track well.
Installing a set of Napa offset ball joints, years ago, added a couple degrees and it steers OK but it doesn't center as well as it did, when stock.
At 6.5", consider upgrading to a HP30.

No matter how well adjusted the caster and pinion angle are, having OTK steering, and the track bar in the stock position, is going to cause serious handling problems.
The steering geometry is totally out of wack. But you already have the part on order, so that's covered.

Pay attention to the front pinion angle. The FSM call for 1 degree or less.
Too much angle will wear the u-joint and pinion bearings out quicker.
Front driveshaft vibrations can become a problem when regearing, the driveshaft spins faster and is more prone to vibrations if the pinion angle isn't right.
 
6.5" is a lot of lift for a LP30. It is impossible to get the caster anywhere near 5 degrees without cutting and rotating the Cs.
My 2001, @ 4" of lift, had 2 degree of caster, when the front axle pinion was set to 1 degree or less. It didn't track well.
Installing a set of Napa offset ball joints, years ago, added a couple degrees and it steers OK but it doesn't center as well as it did, when stock.
At 6.5", consider upgrading to a HP30.
No matter how well adjusted the caster and pinion angle are, having OTK steering, and the track bar in the stock position, is going to cause serious handling problems.
The steering geometry is totally out of wack. But you already have the part on order, so that's covered..

Non-sense, I've been at 5.5" for all these years with "ZERO" issues( I bought mine new and lifted it within a few days)! After 15 yrs I finally succumb to a plastic tank blow-out, but prior I didn't put any money into it other that lifting it, putting in 4.10's, 33's, and a Tera-low 4.1 kit!
 
Last edited:
Non-sense, I've been at 5.5" for all these years with "ZERO" issues( I bought mine new and lifted it within a few days)! After 15 yrs I finally succumb to a plastic tank blow-out, but prior I didn't put any money into it other that lifting it, putting in 4.10's, 33's, and a Tera-low 4.1 kit!

Not exactly sure what you think is non-sense.
Is running OTK, without raising the axle track bar bracket, sensable?
Is running high pinion angles sensable?
Is running with 2 or 3 degrees of caster sensible?
Is an LP30, at 6.5" of lift, as good as HP30, when comes to caster, pinion angles and gear strength?
Guess it's a matter of opinion and standards.
 
Not exactly sure what you think is non-sense.
Is running OTK, without raising the axle track bar bracket, sensable?
Is running high pinion angles sensable?
Is running with 2 or 3 degrees of caster sensible?
Is an LP30, at 6.5" of lift, as good as HP30, when comes to caster, pinion angles and gear strength?
Guess it's a matter of opinion and standards.
x2



i would investigate the control arm issue further before throwing offset BJs or adjustable cam bolts at it. their design, though shitty, should net you an acceptable castor measurement. either there is something wrong with their part, or your axle. try to find it before spending money.

and you most definitely need to raise the axle side trackbar mount to match the raised drag link. having the two links misaligned causes an issue known as bump steer.
 
I missed the part about the OP having a OTK set-up, but I was referring to a mechanically sound LP D30 being fine on lifts up to 6" without any special requirements.
 
Back
Top