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orangetrek
February 27th, 2017, 15:37
Below are a few pics of what im up against trying to make a bush rig out of my 99 xj (going out to catch a trout and the like). I bought this thing in 2005 and for the past few years she's been laid up (in less than ideal conditions obviously) and ive been looking forward to getting 'er back on the road.

I wasn't going to bother posting pics of this heap but at this point i think i need some unbiased perspective.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/6c5fdde6d265f20a0959a122e8cd6165.jpg

passenger side

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/2d4e02e7d812e8685c46b2eb5a2d1998.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/6c484daa7fd8f0d6e93483b481f9fd0e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/85e730137988d17e193d166dcb648efd.jpg

Front drivers side

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/7d0138f8e7227c476aa2380ca072a5b0.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/1b4d1821ed57daaf6b15654ceb6ecca1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/e88966a1b113989d1eda18436a5cd86c.jpg

Interior

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/8b5a2a38bc745a604e15c6e330e76932.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/b84ef9bfa825f2ce0aa2218dc70f34f8.jpg

Ive busted off 90% of the bolts that are removed.... do your worst folks, greatly appreciated

orangetrek
February 27th, 2017, 15:50
... ive got ruffstuff front and centre stiffeners in the mail to help the frame

orangetrek
February 27th, 2017, 18:33
Gas tank armour. 4 - 17mm and 2 - 18mm bolts. Only one broken. Things are looking up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170228/c168f35adcc33dadb6187cca51f33294.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170228/f7e5134bffe0a6c89b5806f16f7ee2d5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170228/7ad8e41f051440b4094652324604725e.jpg

Mufflers not supported now...

orangetrek
February 27th, 2017, 21:22
Ok. Im figuring nothings beyond fixing. Love the forum. Appreciate the lack of input. Means i should keep going :)

Hypoid
February 27th, 2017, 21:49
Ok. Im figuring nothings beyond fixing. Love the forum. Appreciate the lack of input. Means i should keep going :)

Please excuse my state of shock. Is this amount of rust common for Newfoundland? :wow:

Do you know how to weld? Do you own a MIG welder? You can order all kinds of body parts. Hopefully you have something to attach them to.

orangetrek
February 27th, 2017, 21:54
Please excuse my state of shock. Is this amount of rust common for Newfoundland? :wow:

Do you know how to weld? Do you own a MIG welder? You can order all kinds of body parts. Hopefully you have something to attach them to.
I have a welder. Im a little ways away from figuring out what exactly i have to do here. This rig wouldnt have lasted so long if only in NL. In ON until 2007

Kittrell
March 1st, 2017, 09:55
You can get a whole new floor pan or try to patch what you have.

Full Floor Pan (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/amd-400-1067?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-auto-metal-direct&gclid=COO_oajvtdICFRKewAodZ4wCyw)

Individual Floor Pans (http://www.quadratec.com/categories/jeep_body_frame/replacement-panels/floor-panels)

You can do a rocker replacement and I would just swap out the doors for healthy ones.

2x6 Rocker Replacement (https://www.hooliganoffroad.com/collections/xj/products/xj-2x6-rocker-replacement-kit)

I know you already ordered stiffeners but these guys make the best version out there.

Full Stiffener System (https://www.hooliganoffroad.com/collections/xj/products/xj-full-stiffener-system)

Not something you mentioned, but something I noticed. You can get this to replace your broken center console bracket.

Bracket (http://www.dirtboundoffroad.com/center-console-bracket-jeep-cherokee-xj-97-01.html)

old_man
March 1st, 2017, 10:50
I hate to say this, but it needs a lot more than a floor pan. The "frame rails" appear to be toast as well. If the drive train is still good, I would look for a body only and swap every thing over. I did this when my I taco'd my old rig. As it turns out, I snagged a body only from a club member for hauling it off.

The shear amount of work replacing all the sheetmetal and getting the structural integrity back could end up taking multiple hundreds of hours, not to mention the cost.

It would be worth it to drive a few hundred miles and drag a different body home on a rented trailer. You life would be a ton easier and you would start with a known quantity. Just the cost of getting all the sheetmetal, getting everything sandblasted, and the metal stabilized, could run you $1000. Around here I can snag you a running vehicle with minimal rust for maybe $1500.

notamos
March 1st, 2017, 10:54
I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. There's nothing there that is worth your time/money. I'd find a new<er> one w/ MUCH less rust. That thing is terminal, call hospice.

orangetrek
March 1st, 2017, 11:32
You can get a whole new floor pan or try to patch what you have.

Full Floor Pan (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/amd-400-1067?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-auto-metal-direct&gclid=COO_oajvtdICFRKewAodZ4wCyw)

Individual Floor Pans (http://www.quadratec.com/categories/jeep_body_frame/replacement-panels/floor-panels)

You can do a rocker replacement and I would just swap out the doors for healthy ones.

2x6 Rocker Replacement (https://www.hooliganoffroad.com/collections/xj/products/xj-2x6-rocker-replacement-kit)

I know you already ordered stiffeners but these guys make the best version out there.

Full Stiffener System (https://www.hooliganoffroad.com/collections/xj/products/xj-full-stiffener-system)

Not something you mentioned, but something I noticed. You can get this to replace your broken center console bracket.

Bracket (http://www.dirtboundoffroad.com/center-console-bracket-jeep-cherokee-xj-97-01.html)
Those stiffeners look like a better option for sure... i should have done more research. The more i tear away from the thing the better idea ill have just exactly what im dealing with. Thanks for the links!

orangetrek
March 1st, 2017, 11:40
I hate to say this, but it needs a lot more than a floor pan. The "frame rails" appear to be toast as well. If the drive train is still good, I would look for a body only and swap every thing over. I did this when my I taco'd my old rig. As it turns out, I snagged a body only from a club member for hauling it off.

The shear amount of work replacing all the sheetmetal and getting the structural integrity back could end up taking multiple hundreds of hours, not to mention the cost.

It would be worth it to drive a few hundred miles and drag a different body home on a rented trailer. You life would be a ton easier and you would start with a known quantity. Just the cost of getting all the sheetmetal, getting everything sandblasted, and the metal stabilized, could run you $1000. Around here I can snag you a running vehicle with minimal rust for maybe $1500.
The only absolutely terrible portion of the rails seem to be in the front, hoping the stiffeners will bridge the structural gap. I dont mind spending the time getting it back on the road but there may come a point when the expense will shut this project down.

As for getting a new body im afraid id probably have to travel off the island to find one. Im going to have a look atound though as a contingency.

Thanks for the input!

lazyxj
March 1st, 2017, 16:03
As for getting a new body im afraid id probably have to travel off the island to find one. Im going to have a look atound though as a contingency.

It might be a lot easier to take a vacation and find a body without the cancer.

That's awful amount of rust.
Good chance that many of the embedded nuts, the ones that the leaf springs, shackles and crossmember use, will strip or break loose and spin, adding many extra hours of work to repair.
Assume there is rust damage in places you can't see, up inside the unibody.
I would think the whole unibody is compromised.
How do you plan on using the XJ, once in operating condition?

Hypoid
March 1st, 2017, 16:18
It might be a lot easier to take a vacation and find a body without the cancer...

How do you plan on using the XJ, once in operating condition?

Below are a few pics of what im up against trying to make a bush rig out of my 99 xj (going out to catch a trout and the like).
Ive busted off 90% of the bolts that are removed.... do your worst folks, greatly appreciated
Keep in mind, the OP is in Canada. It may not be so simple, or so cheap for him to do the things that people "South of the Border" will do.

None the less, that is a lot of rust!

orangetrek
March 3rd, 2017, 18:58
Some shot of the doors...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/65ad9a3f7b8d61ad39abdf28ed6dc7b0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/1d51425f5456f17057ef6fbe359f911a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/49ef2eeb2eef9096cb0421b214cf68f3.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/e65705dce999aa680b217ceb8d131b72.jpg

Drivers back is the last pic...doors are sound.

Picking at the "chassis" this evening.... i think shes salvagable!

orangetrek
March 3rd, 2017, 19:03
Rear drivers side lug trouble ...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/359144321db7bf510acd0a8c5988b6a6.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/644141e6f82e5e634abfab491ff6e8ce.jpg
Beat the voids with a wee cold chisel then..
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/7e1818fc97b7a352a75f05f6fa87d672.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/20ffe69cd676e6ba41eb77ba12b93c1b.jpg

Its a labour if love... has to be eh

orangetrek
March 3rd, 2017, 19:05
Wheels not off yet. Trip to crappy tire to replace broken nuts off tomorrow . Ill be a bit more ginger with the pass side

orangetrek
March 3rd, 2017, 20:01
Slow process. Im in no real hurry. Stay tuned

David_Bricker
March 3rd, 2017, 20:41
Looks like this sat in a grassy field for a number of years. The moisture attacks the lower 2 feet or so. Unfortunately, that's also where the structure is.

The frame strengthens will NOT replace the frame rails. If the rails are truly gone, you'll need to fabricate some channel to replace the entire frame rail (or overlay it), and tie that into new body and floor panels.

Best bet is to get it completely stripped down before buying any materials. Remove springs, engine and mounts, etc. IF you do rebuild it, you'll want the drivetrain out of the way anyway. Once stripped, you can make a go/nogo decision.

David Bricker / SYR - TUS - "gotta love road salt"

orangetrek
March 3rd, 2017, 21:00
Looks like this sat in a grassy field for a number of years. The moisture attacks the lower 2 feet or so. Unfortunately, that's also where the structure is.

The frame strengthens will NOT replace the frame rails. If the rails are truly gone, you'll need to fabricate some channel to replace the entire frame rail (or overlay it), and tie that into new body and floor panels.

Best bet is to get it completely stripped down before buying any materials. Remove springs, engine and mounts, etc. IF you do rebuild it, you'll want the drivetrain out of the way anyway. Once stripped, you can make a go/nogo decision.

David Bricker / SYR - TUS - "gotta love road salt"
Good advise and right inline with my thinking. I was in denial but it needs to be a shell underneath in order for me to do it any justice

David_Bricker
March 3rd, 2017, 21:10
By the way, I've been to NL a couple of times, but unfortunately, only St. Johns. Still, I've loved it, and look forward to hopefully getting back up there again late this year.

David Bricker / SYR - TUS

Anak
March 3rd, 2017, 22:06
If you haven't already done so you need to start soaking all your fasteners with either Kroil or 50/50 Acetone/ATF.

You have a rough path ahead of you. Do what you can to make it easier.

montanaman
March 5th, 2017, 15:56
OUCH!! Not trying to be a downer here, but I would have to say ... I no longer try to cure that kind of cancer. My first car was a '67 VW beetle that had cancer almost as bad as yours. I spent countless hours grinding away the rust and repairing it, only for the rust to show up again several years later. I learned my lesson from that, and whenever I buy a car now, I crawl all over it looking for rust.

I've had my XJ for more than 12 years, and plan to keep it forever, so I just wouldn't want to start with such a massive amount of cancer. You also need to consider that if you weld in entire replacement panels, the unibody "frame" might not be in a completely aligned position during welding, which would create tracking/alignment problems.

Sorry about that, but I agree with old_man. I'd look for a decent body and combine the two vehicles.

N8N_99xj
March 5th, 2017, 17:29
OK here's the deal with the lug nuts.

Those look to be the factory ones which are stainless capped; it looks like your caps have gone missing over time (very common.) I HATE those things! Chrysler used them on everything. What would happen is the cap would start to spin on the lug nut and eventually you'd have to beat the socket on then the cap would come off with the socket. Alternately you couldn't get a socket on at all and you'd have to "peel" the stainless off, there's plenty of ways to **** this up and only one way I've found to do it right. I take a worn out flat blade screwdriver and a BFH and punch a hole in the end of the cap and then use it like a chisel to get it loose.

THEN - and this is the important thing - you need to use a socket ONE SIZE SMALLER than intended, in your case this would be 3/4" so use a 11/16" or 18mm whichever fits better. Otherwise you round it off and hate your life. I see you ended up using a turbo socket on one that is probably because in the past some idiot used a 19mm or 3/4" socket (they're essentially the same size, within .05mm, so interchanging them is not a big sin) and munged it all up.

On mine whenever any of the caps get loose I replace them immediately with McGard 64010 chrome plated ones. Reason I do this is I feel the closed end protects the wheel studs from corrosion better than open end lug nuts like the ones used with hubcaps, or what yours have become.

I know this sounds anal retentive but I did grow up in western PA so I'm pretty sensitive to rust making things hard to work on, but it looks like you are too!

Good luck...

orangetrek
March 5th, 2017, 19:30
All the caps slipped off with not much trouble. I then drove a smaller socket on and removed 2 and rounded then snapped 2 off at the threads... i snapped the nut remover and beat up a cold chisel getting the half nuts from the remover. Need a trip to the store now for a new narrow chisel to split what remains holding the wheel on. Thats the only way i see of getting the wheel off at this point.
No one to blame, for the munged nuts, but myself unfortunately!
Gotta pay to go to school.

These types of nuts should be illegal to install at the factory, they all inevitably fail. Ive replaced all of them on my dd (F150).

orangetrek
March 5th, 2017, 19:34
OUCH!! Not trying to be a downer here, but I would have to say ... I no longer try to cure that kind of cancer. My first car was a '67 VW beetle that had cancer almost as bad as yours. I spent countless hours grinding away the rust and repairing it, only for the rust to show up again several years later. I learned my lesson from that, and whenever I buy a car now, I crawl all over it looking for rust.

I've had my XJ for more than 12 years, and plan to keep it forever, so I just wouldn't want to start with such a massive amount of cancer. You also need to consider that if you weld in entire replacement panels, the unibody "frame" might not be in a completely aligned position during welding, which would create tracking/alignment problems.

Sorry about that, but I agree with old_man. I'd look for a decent body and combine the two vehicles.
I too agree with everything you guys are saying. Chances are I would have just bought a quad if I havent been holding on to this jeep for all these years. Call me stubborn but im going to whittle away at it and see whats left at the end. Might be a set of stiffeners for sale when its all said and done!

This is a slow work in progress, wont be setting any speed records with this tear down.

Appreciate all the feed back folks!

old_man
March 6th, 2017, 08:24
Remember to get your tetanus shot before you start.:jester:

smokeyyank
March 29th, 2017, 10:07
After working on my old K5 that was a rust bucket, I learned one thing......It's a lot easier and cheaper to not try and fix it. I applaud your want to fix it, but with unibodys and that amount of rust you're never going to get it 100% let alone 50%. I suggest chopping it all and making a juggy if you really want to do anything with it.

orangetrek
March 31st, 2017, 10:16
Yes for sure i hear ya... my goal isnt to achieve a rust free rig but to mend it well enough so it doesnt taco on while out drowning some worms.
Ive got the time to mess with it and its a good learning experience for me incase i ever come across one in good shape down the road.

When ive actually completed something noteworthy ill post some pics. Just bought a sled last week so the xj is on the back burner for now.

Appreciate the feed back!

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

cherokeefan_1
April 1st, 2017, 10:17
I restored muscle cars for years and definitely tackled jobs like this but I also had them attached to a frame rack to ensure everything is in alignment when cutting and replacing stuff. If it's trail only I'd think about adding a cage if you don't replace the sub structure. Get a bunch of square tube steel to replace the unit body that's bad if you can't get good solid replacements, weld those to, well, everything. Cars this bad would normally get acid dipped so you know what is actually still steel. But a sand blaster will be mandatory to be able to weld anything, it's impossible to weld rust, you just blow holes in stuff.