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What would a piston ring job cost me?

NeXJ

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Los Angeles
So - I just had a new head put on the 99HO engine on my 92XJ a bit over a year ago. I hadn't really driven it since because the few times I took it out it was overheating pretty consistently. I assume the cylinders were not matched to the piston rings or vice versa. Yeah - it's my fault for not addressing it right away - I just felt discouraged after (ironically) having an overheating engine that was rebuilt (DUE to an overheat).

At any rate - I'm guessing the next step would be to take it in for a piston ring 'job'. What do you good folk recommend for this condition? thanks for your time.
 
Making an assumption without troubleshooting is your first problem and it can cost you a bundle when the problem might be simple.

A simple compression test can tell you the state of the rings and if they are seated, etc.

Low compression is not a source for overheating. Overheating can be caused by:

1) Running too lean
a. Bad sensors (O2, MAP, TPS)
b. Low fuel pressure
c. Plugged fuel injectors
d. Large vacuum leak (check with a vacuum gauge)

2) Timing advanced too much. Not normally found on computerized vehicles these days

3) Cooling system problems
a. Clogged radiator
b. Air bubble in the system
c. Bad water pump (not likely)
d. Stuck thermostat
e. Collapsed lower radiator hose
f. Low fluid due to old radiator cap (should be replaced every 2 years)

4) Clogged CAT (happens more than you might think) You can check this out with a simple vacuum gauge as well.

Don't throw $$$ at a problem until you are sure that is what it is.

Good Luck

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to post them up.
 
I appreciate the advice - but it's pretty much a no brainer to assume that when your vehicle comes back from a head swap at the garage and it's overheating that there's a correlation (esp. when it wasnt' beforehand??)
 
Bad piston rings will not cause an overheating issue. It will cause a loss of power. No power means no heat.
Something else is amiss. Check your cooling system. If it went in to rebuilt for overheating and is still overheating and nothing else but the head changed then the heads not it.

These are not the droids you are looking for.
 
thanks Dragon...

well perhaps I am pointing the finger in too specific (and wrong) direction. I am just trying to avoid having to pay another 2K I paid for the head replacement and it's out of warranty now. I was hoping that asking the mechanic to do something with the tolerances (assuming the piston rings were the easiest way to reduce friction) might be an easy way to do that

The previous cylinder head was honed/bored so that's why i was assuming the piston rings were out of tolerance to the new head ... so presumably they didn't check tolerances (assumed they were 'stock') when fitting the new head.

do you see what i mean? I hope that's clearer.
 
pistons rings do not tough the head, they only seal the piston to the cylinder bore in the block. nothing in the head that is considered a head item, (valves, seals, rockers, springs will cause a heating issue.
 
Could be something as stupid as air in the coolant system.. But like others have said, the pistons aren't causing the overheating, that doesn't make any sense.

Sent from my HTC M9 using Tapatalk
 
Making an assumption without troubleshooting is your first problem and it can cost you a bundle when the problem might be simple.

A simple compression test can tell you the state of the rings and if they are seated, etc.

Low compression is not a source for overheating. Overheating can be caused by:

1) Running too lean
a. Bad sensors (O2, MAP, TPS) HEAD
b. Low fuel pressure HEAD
c. Plugged fuel injectors HEAD
d. Large vacuum leak (check with a vacuum gauge) HEAD

2) Timing advanced too much. Not normally found on computerized vehicles these days

3) Cooling system problems
a. Clogged radiator
b. Air bubble in the system HEAD
c. Bad water pump (not likely)
d. Stuck thermostat HEAD
e. Collapsed lower radiator hose
f. Low fluid due to old radiator cap (should be replaced every 2 years)

4) Clogged CAT (happens more than you might think) You can check this out with a simple vacuum gauge as well.

Don't throw $$$ at a problem until you are sure that is what it is.

Good Luck

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to post them up.

Look at the list of possible issues above. All of these issues can contribute to overheating. The ones noted HEAD, all, to some extent involve, or are attached to, the head. All those issues could have been messed with, overlooked and/or tweaked while in the shop.

Seriously? 2K :rtm: Wow.
 
Being frustrated is understandable, and grasping at straws after investing big bucks is too. That said, the previous advice for trouble-shooting is spot on.., so take it, or have a mechanic take it in order to go through the routine problem/solution checks advised.

I am confused. On your first post you said; "...overheating engine that was rebuilt (DUE to an overheat)". Your second post said; "...it's overheating that there's a correlation (esp. when it wasnt' beforehand??)".

My assumption is that a '99 engine was found, but had experienced an overheat issue, and thusly was rebuilt, and then installed. Correct?

This '99 engine was rebuilt, i.e., bearings, rings, etc., and then topped off with it's own original, possibly reworked head, correct?

Then this same engine that was rebuilt due to an overheating issue came to you, and due to further overheating you had a so-called 'new' head installed whereupon the overheating issue remains, correct?

Could you start over with your '99 engine history, i.e; when found, from before it was long ago hoisted above your XJ engine bay for installation, to a year ago when it suffered overheat conditions?

To be clearer;
Do you know the total approximate miles on the '99 engine before the installation into your '92 XJ, (as in; prior to the shop work done a year ago)?

Before the 2 grand shop work done a year ago, your engine was overheating, right? Did your XJ have any outward symptoms like loss of coolant waters, i.e., steam, fluid on the ground? Did you have water in oil, or oil in water?

You said the engine was rebuilt.., can you please explain exactly what was done according to your shop receipt? If you have lost it, try to obtain a copy from the shop, and report back please.

You said there was a "NEW" head installation to this shop rebuilt engine. Was it truly OEM new, or a reworked replacement?

Again I admit that I am confused by your write-up, but the advice others have given you so far are spot-on. I've only written this up for the sake of clarity that I, (and perhaps others), can be able to get involved to help you further.

I have had, and have seen engine blocks where there were leftover manufactures debris, and consequential crap plugging up various engine oil, and coolant passageways requiring removal of said, i.e., extractions, including pressurized air, and forced fluid checks to the engine carcass on the engine stand well before beginning restoration, i.e., line bore of the case for a crank, balancing crank check, cylinder restoration, proper new replacement parts, i.e., proper sized rings to new pistons, wrist pins, crank rods, bearings, etc., proper fit to head to case. Such a job is usually way higher than the 2 grand shop charge you mentioned leading me to believe you got a wham bam thank you for a partially quick engine rebuild.
 
I've been doing this stuff since before you were born. Trust me,

Do a compression test and a vacuum test. All it will cost you is an hour or so of time and it will point you in the right direction. You can get loaner tools at most chain auto parts stores for just a deposit.
 
I'm with everyone else on this; you have a cooing problem not a ring seating problem. If you have to have a mechanic do the job tell him your symptoms as well as any recent repair history. Let them do the diagnosis from there. If you want help with finding a good shop try asking on the Socal chapter forum.

WHEN the overheating happens is important too. Does it happen in traffic or around town but not while cruising at 45 mph+? That could be as simple as an electric fan not working. And that could be as simple as the fan not being plugged in. I just went through that with my son's '94. He was thinking the worst (most expensive) and all it took was for me to plug in his fan. Like others have said, we need more detailed information about your symptoms in order to help.

Bad rings have their own symptoms and thus far we have not heard them. Really, we all want to help. Frustration can be an expensive set of blinders. We've all been there and done that. It's called experience.
 
disregard everything that has been done previously.

Start anew with your diagnosis.

You're not looking at the problem, you're looking at the symptoms and trying to make them fit your notion that there's something wrong with hard parts that probably aren't causing the problem.
 
THANKS GUYS... i am letting some of this sink in...

basically i'd been driving without a temp sensor (gauge, not thermostat) for years (due to using the 99 engine in a 92... the new style temp sender wasnt compatible electrically ... and i didnt want to just play roulette boring into my existing head to mount an old style one... i tried mounting one in the upper rad hose but it failed for whatever reason... anyway...) but after my catastrophe i had my local shop put a new head on it and bore for a temp sender unit... and since the old head had its cylinders honed i figured it HAD to be a result of a piston fing mismatch...

ps... it gets 'hot' from just driving around the city. since you asked... i have to use the heater on full blast just to keep temps down around 210 - 220...

i would do try to do some work on it but i have a bit of a sciatica problem so i am just going to take it to my guy i guess... i have to be really careful about putting my spine in weird positions... he is really good but not a jeep specialist. he is honest though and i trust him...

so i guess i will just go to him and explain what i can. i just got stuck on assuming the new head would have cured all the old problems but created the new ones...
 
Being frustrated is understandable, and grasping at straws after investing big bucks is too. That said, the previous advice for trouble-shooting is spot on.., so take it, or have a mechanic take it in order to go through the routine problem/solution checks advised.

I am confused. On your first post you said; "...overheating engine that was rebuilt (DUE to an overheat)". Your second post said; "...it's overheating that there's a correlation (esp. when it wasnt' beforehand??)".

My assumption is that a '99 engine was found, but had experienced an overheat issue, and thusly was rebuilt, and then installed. Correct?

This '99 engine was rebuilt, i.e., bearings, rings, etc., and then topped off with it's own original, possibly reworked head, correct?

Then this same engine that was rebuilt due to an overheating issue came to you, and due to further overheating you had a so-called 'new' head installed whereupon the overheating issue remains, correct?

Could you start over with your '99 engine history, i.e; when found, from before it was long ago hoisted above your XJ engine bay for installation, to a year ago when it suffered overheat conditions?

To be clearer;
Do you know the total approximate miles on the '99 engine before the installation into your '92 XJ, (as in; prior to the shop work done a year ago)?

Before the 2 grand shop work done a year ago, your engine was overheating, right? Did your XJ have any outward symptoms like loss of coolant waters, i.e., steam, fluid on the ground? Did you have water in oil, or oil in water?

You said the engine was rebuilt.., can you please explain exactly what was done according to your shop receipt? If you have lost it, try to obtain a copy from the shop, and report back please.

You said there was a "NEW" head installation to this shop rebuilt engine. Was it truly OEM new, or a reworked replacement?

Again I admit that I am confused by your write-up, but the advice others have given you so far are spot-on. I've only written this up for the sake of clarity that I, (and perhaps others), can be able to get involved to help you further.

I have had, and have seen engine blocks where there were leftover manufactures debris, and consequential crap plugging up various engine oil, and coolant passageways requiring removal of said, i.e., extractions, including pressurized air, and forced fluid checks to the engine carcass on the engine stand well before beginning restoration, i.e., line bore of the case for a crank, balancing crank check, cylinder restoration, proper new replacement parts, i.e., proper sized rings to new pistons, wrist pins, crank rods, bearings, etc., proper fit to head to case. Such a job is usually way higher than the 2 grand shop charge you mentioned leading me to believe you got a wham bam thank you for a partially quick engine rebuild.



thanks a lot for the TLC and thought AlaskanXJ.... the 99 HO was actually NEW.... I put it in myself in late 2000 with help from another NAXJA member actually! it was from an automatic... i just popped a new thrust bearing in at the input shaft connection and it was more or less good to go. but it worked great for maybe five years.. no overheating or power isses of any kind. then i had a cooling system problem (blocked rad iirc) and had to get it 'rebuilt' including the rebore apparently due to heat damage in the head.

This last time, as in my above post... i was driving without a temp gauge but otherwise problem free for another seven or so years and suddenly i started having cooling issues but i put in a new rad, t-stat, hoses etc etc ... though it seemed to be running hot still (electric fan coming on a lot etc) and one day on the freeway going slightly uphill i started hearing a lot of crazy valve or rocker noise and KABLOOIE!!! water gushing everywhere.... so thats what led to the last 'rebuild' which was really little more than a second hand 'reconditioned' head and temp sender being put on the thing.... but since THAT setup now seemed to be overheating i was discouraged and just stopped driving it altogether... so its just been sitting since well over a year... until now...

thanks for the help guys.
 
Their is no cylinder in the head to bore, the cylinder is in the block.

well that solves that then!! haha ... it was always my understanding the head contained half of the combustion chambers, spark, injectors, valves, lifters and whatnot. sorry for my lack of clarity and / or misunderstanding
 
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the CAT is brand new too... i passed my last smog test (just before the big overheat) with flying colors... but that was then and this is now.

and now i have to get it smogged again... but i thought it smart to try to get my heat issues resolved before the smog test...
 
does it get hot if you're doing 40+ MPH?

if not, strongly suspect your fan clutch. With no cooling air coming at speed you're completely dependent on the mechanical fan. A failing fan clutch would also fit with your electric fan coming on and off.

since it will stay reasonably cool with the heat on it's not likely a problem in the motor.
 
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