1999 xj 4.0 water drops found after dropping oil pan? What is it?

Hey guys;

So i may have jumped the gun on rear main seal, It might not have needed to be changed. I know for sure my valve cover gasket is leaking badly in the rear. But besides that, I have been working on the jeep for about 2 weeks now changing the rear main seal. I had a lot of trouble with it, ended up having to remove shocks, sway bar links (both of them broke), and still not enough clearance. So i decided to remove trac bar and drag link, the head off that hold the track bar bolt broke, as well as the ball joint of the track bar. So if that wasn't enough shit going on in my life I saw a green drop forming from the middle of the block and drop down on my head. Shortly after another drop was forming i grabbed it and tried mixing it with oil and sure enough it doesnt mix. I looked this morning and there are maybe 3 drops of water on the floor, but it doesnt look green. What do you guys think?

The car hasnt been used in about a month now. Before that it had overheated badly due to water pump not having fins, and entire cooling system being clogged (bought it that way). Cooling system has been resolved I drive it with no overheating issues, and checked the oil throughout to make sure i never saw water in it. The oil that came out of the pan looked just like old black oil, but I didnt seen any water or emulsion. What the hell is going on here?

Any input is appreciated.

Are you indicating that those drops of anti-freeze formed, and dripped down off of your crankshaft/journals/rod-caps, etc?

A tiny leak of coolant within your engine could be as simple, (as if this is simple), as a bad head gasket from your overheating, or a warped head from such, thusly having a small coolant leak springing forth from a block coolant channel through a bad inner area of the gasket.., traveling over into an oil channel, thusly having coolant to find a way down into your oil pan. (small crack in block and/or head are less probable, but has happened from overheating experiences). As you mentioned; oil, and water do not mix, so the water, whether copious, or as steamy stuff could collect on, or in an area within your moving parts to be again in a concentrated form, i.e., beads of water/coolant to drip via gravity.

Even though you found no coolant in your oil pan, or from the oil you dropped out before removing pan, does not mean that coolant never made it's way to there. Such small amounts of coolant dropping down while running your engine could probably evaporate enough to generally not show up in your oil, either on the dip stick, or when changing out your oil.., but to have drops hit your forehead is concerning. (the Chinese water torture dripping drops on one's forehead comes to mind, lol).

Small amounts of coolant are hard to detect, but often the valve cover cap might show a slight brownish sludge collecting to it, as a mixture trying to escape the top of the engine. You might see more of the sludge upon removing valve cover should that be the case.., or you could take the cap off, look at it, and also insert your finger reaching around to collect whatever might show up on your finger tip. However minor amounts of said sludge can often collect just because of higher than usual ambient humidity in the mix, (hot moist air mixing with oil), under the valve cover.

If the coolant dropped down, and hit your head with the oil pan affixed to your block.., well that's a different matter.

I hope others will chime in as having other points of view are most helpful.

thank you very much for replying, i was really worried that it would be a blown head gasket. I did see some sludge on oil cap, but some mechanics told me its normal condensation. I have wiped it off before and i wont see it for a while. The weird thing is my engine hasnt ran for about a month, and while im down there i see drops falling on my head, yet no water in the oil? it makes no sense(at least to me). Im really hoping its not a head gasket, i dont want to put that kind of money into it. i know i dont have the weak head that plagues 2000 and 2001. What do you guys think the chances are of me being fine as is?

When i first got the car i was worried about head gasket so i did a cold compression test, all of my numbers where normal, except 3 or 4 ( i wanna say 3) it consistently got 130, while the others were at 150 or better. oil in the cylinder did not help at all with compression.

I feel like giving up

i just realized i never answered your question about where the drops are coming from, yea it came down from the where the crankshaft is at.

another question why would there be a slow leak of antifreeze coming from the head gasket when there isnt any pressure in the system, i mean if its dripping water like that while its off, i can only imagine its a pretty solid leak while there is 15 psi and 200 degrees of heat.

Hmmm.., ok let's try something. Clean the floor under the Jeep, or lay some cardboard down. Take a 3/4" wrench, maybe a socket will fit, and put it on the crankshaft nut, and turn it clockwise one turn. Look for a new drip. If not after 5 minutes, turn nut again one turn, 5 min., repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. You will probably get a slight shotgun pattern on the floor/cardboard. You could also use your key, and turn engine over for five seconds without really hurting anything, imho, and that should pressurize the coolant system enough to force the drip(s) to begin. You might be able to see from around which cylinder the drip is coming from, i.e., some area above the crankshaft/lobes/journals/rods, etc. Use a flash light. Inspect the skirts of the pistons too. This is to try to identify just where the leak appears to be coming from, i.e., perhaps green anti-freeze drops will be dripping into the top of piston, sliding down through the ring gaps, and thusly sliding further down, splashing sometimes on top of the crank, (or not), onto your floor/cardboard. Feel around areas you can not see. Make sure no one else can even think to start your engine from mis-communicated verbages.

Previously when engine was running, such a leak onto the top of your piston will be exploded out the exhaust with everything else.., hence not overtly contaminating your oil overall. However when you turn your engine off, the leak will drop down into your oil pan, being pushed down out of the coolant system until the system's pressure decreases to zero. A few drops daily into your oil pan will more than likely be diluted, atomically speaking, and eventually be evaporated out when engine is running, as the heated engine oil is being pumped all around, heating up the anti-freeze, and making it evaporate away. Easiest problem is a bad gasket, and/or a warped head. Both are relatively easy fixes. Hardest is a cracked block, requiring a newer block. Either way, between book(s), and helpful naxja members, and replacement parts on hand those fixes will be accomplished easy enough, unless you have a physical, or age related handi-cap, etc.

I cannot walk you through a combined compression, and leak down test to figure out your problem, other then suggesting using a flashlight, etc. Somebody else here possibly could when they read about your problem. Or you could possibly put everything back together, and take it to your closest mechanic service appointment for such a test. Where you live I would suspect there is just such a service location within a few miles. Should not have a problem running your XJ that minimum amount of travel since your drips are minimally bad.

As far as being a keeper, your '99 year model is sought after.

Me, I got/get confused easily when on one hand you say water, and another green drops, and further drops of non-green water. Hence I recommend using cardboard. Shoot.., guess I'd tape some white sheets of paper to the cardboard just to be sure.

Had you noticed a loss of coolant in your bottle?
You have a manual of some sorts right?
The less expensive manuals found in auto stores are ok for some things, but the OEM manual is referred to as the "FSM", and it is the expensive best choice.

I just want to say again Thank you so much for helping out!

Right now i have a plastic liner underneath the jeep so that I dont get any oil on the driveway, and I can see 2 drops of a clearish liquid on it, so i possibly erroneously called it water, I know that it has rained recently so thats why I was hoping for it to possibly be rain. What gives me hope is that I dont see any more water on that plastic liner. Only the first drop that fell on my head looked green, but it was quick, I saw something green forming on the crank and before i knew it my head got wet. The next drop didnt fully form I wanted to investigate to ensure it wouldnt mix with oil.

I will take your advice and turn the crank to see if I get any more drops of water and from where, I can also pull the spark plug to see if there is any water on the piston. I will report my findings, hopefully tomorrow.

This might not provide real data but I have driven the car post-cooling system fix. On 25 min drive to work and back, 30 min drive followed by 15 min of slow light offroading and back, another 30 min drive and back, along with some others. Point being I never noticed any loss of power or overheating issues, sweet smell in exhaust. I did notice a loss of coolant in the reservoir bottle when I initially serviced the cooling system but i just figured it was due to air in the system. It has since remained stable. Does it seem possible that I have head gastket, head, or block problems without any other symptoms?

My fiance's dad is a mechanic, im sure he would be willing to help with anything i need, but I am pretty mechanically inclined myself. That being say I would really rather not do a head gasket seeing as rear main seal has taken me 2 weeks and still isnt finished (i have a shitty work schedule, and it has been a pita).

Is the body sought after or the motor? because if it turns out to be a head gasket i already have 200k on the motor is it even worth it? Where would you guys recommend i get a motor from and a ballpark price for diy. Also I hear people mention that while oil pan is out make sure everything looks good under there. What does that mean, what should I look for?

also forgot to mention that my fiance's dad used a block tester, the blue fluid, and said that it turned very slightly yellow. But i didnt personally see it, and I dont really pay it much mind as from what i read you need bubbles coming out of the radiator, those bubbles are what turns the fluid yellow, and I dont see bubbles coming out of my radiator when i ran it. When filling the cooling system i never saw constant bubbling, yes some bubbles but as far as i know normal due to flush and fill. Previously the system had been total crap, I think someone had put dexcool in it and it sludged up, but that was in the past, cooling system is working fine now.

Q; Slow leak from head gasket?
A; Sure, a small amount will continue to ooze upon shutdown.
Q; imagine its a pretty solid leak while there is 15 psi and 200 degrees of heat.
A; True.., and it could be blowing out the tail pipe, but not too visible in warmer climates, i.e., depending on amounts of course...
Q; make sure everything looks good under there.
A; You could check the oil pick up tube, and see if it wiggles, (fix). You could also use some plasti-gauge to determine if your rod bearings are within proper values around the crank. Probably ok though. Some get 3-400K out of these engines with regular maintenance, good oil, filter, etc.

I have no experience with block tester fluid. Somebody chime in.

There have been surveys where a lot of XJ owners prefer the '99 for whatever reasons. Down on the list would be the cracked head guys. Some like the RENIX, although it has strong, and weak points, blah, blah.


If you do not have a threading type compression gauge checker.., get one, much better readings from them.

Seems I recall that '99 is a transition year where early has the 630 head, and the later have the notorious 361 head which I also seem to recall often crack between cyl's 3, and 4. I think the 630 is embossed, and by looking through the oil filler cap with a flash light it can be seen. The 361 is supposed to be visible along the driver's side of the head somewheres below the v. cover. I am a bit fuzzy with memory as per this paragraph.

Some put a gasket sealer from a bottle; One type for coolant, and one type for oil. You might try that. Me, I check my oil, and coolant daily when engine is cold in preparation for my 50 mile round trip, glancing for a few seconds for obvious leaks, ie., water pump, radiator, hoses, etc. Only takes a few minutes, and is a good insurance against disaster.

Okay, so I pressurized the system, to 13 lbs for 30 mins, less than a lb loss in pressure. No more drops of water visible anywhere, and i dont see any more water on the floor than when the problem started. So i got maybe 5 drops of water over an hour and thats it. It was a one time event and has since then not reoccured including when I pressurized the system. Im going to pull the valve cover to see if there is any water/oil residue on the top of it (i have to change the gasket anyways). But at this point I dont know what else to think other than some weird coincidence because of the rain. Thoughts?

The compression tester i used threaded onto the threads of the spark plug, im not sure if thats what you mean alaskan89xj.

I dont have coil packs, instead wires, so if I am pretty sure i have the 630 head.

I wouldnt want to resort to a gasket sealer, but if i did any recommendations.

I take it that you have not have any more drips. Seems that you have no major issue, but there are more tests that you have mentioned, and that others might, I REPEAT MIGHT CHIME IN, lol.

Anyways, yes the threaded gauge is correct.

Someone here at has a list, or a mention of the period of time during 1999 where they began to install the cracking head. Ball park; Consider the first 6 months of production ok, and the later 6 months... You might have a sticker revealing the month of the vehicle manufacture. Might be a code of sorts. My '89 has been liberated of such decals by previous owners... However there is a good chance you might find the engine ID code just front of the distributor along the block, i.e., forward towards the bumper. Google that, and see what date comes up. Try imputing different words with a '+' sign, i.e., e390fj83ds92<<< (a nonsense group I just hammered in). plus sign 4.0 Jeep Cherokee XJ, or 1999 Cherokee, etc.

I know I have seen input here at that knows, or has that list.., hmmm.

Pretty much the valve cover gasket is mounted to the cover with sticky stuff by the factory. If you replace with a new gasket, you might get one that is like that, or just use some RTV gasket sealer onto the metal, insuring that you travel a even spread, going around the through holes, and then placing gasket to that.

I usually go with FELPRO brand, and use non hardening PERMATEX, but there are probably other gasket sealers that are claimed to be superior, blah, blah.
Don't get radical with the cover, as the metal sealing lip surface can become distorted, requiring extra work to straighten out on your truest flat surface with some ingenuity, i.e., strip of wood, hammer, etc. Better to bang around on it with a rubber mallet, or judo chop it with your hand, lol, in order to dislodge it from the head.

Best wishes, happy trails

So i went out this morning to check on it, and i see a small puddle, maybe 10 drops or more pooled together in a pan i put under the problem spot. I asked my dad to check for me since i was at work, he said no drops but i dont trust him anymore lol. The drop is coming from under 2nd cylinder from the back of engine, i believe cyl. # 5, specifically i see a drop hanging off the cam lobe. I dont know how to upload images so i gave up on that. I cant see where a trail where the water is coming from so maybe from directly above where the cam is? i dont know.

I dont want to pressurize the system again because it doesnt have a pressure release, and im worried i will damage the threads where my cap goes. Its clear there is a leak, so now the plan is to pull the valve cover inspect, and then the head. My dad just wants the car gone, how safe would you think the car would be on trips? Hes trying to convince me to leave it as is until i get more trouble and "need" to do more work. I would rather not do that though, it sounds risky.

DARN!!!!! Well, I would not drive it for too long, i.e., 'trips'; long, versus short--I suspect you mean long.

Drips again. Well take off your valve cover as a simple task to see what is there.

Deal seems to me to be a head gasket leak right around the area of the block where the push tubes travel down from the upper head valve rockers, down through the head, down into the top of the block, and through it down to your cam shaft lobes.

Your overheating issue probably caused the head to warp a bit, (and even though it may have straightened out), causing for the head gasket to separate between the head, and block. Maybe even cracked the gasket.

You might take it to a shop for an hour's worth of testing, i.e., call around, tell them you suspect a head gasket leak, and make an appointment, (while you wait), for them to ascertain the issue for the hours work time. Tell them that's all the expense you want to pay at that time. Depending on the result(s), you can either drive away, or make another appointment to have them fix the issue, if fixable. For most, the head gasket replacement is doable with a few tools, a mediocre book, (such as Haynes, etc.), and perseverance.., with a minimum of a cash outlay. Did one once in a snow storm, under a tarp using the hood as one half of a tent of sorts, lol. Much easier out of the weather. Most garage mechanics will stand behind their work.., some not so much so. Find one that does if you go that route.

If you decide to replace head gasket, obtain brand new head bolts, and/or make sure the mechanic uses new ones. There might be an additional cost of having the head planed level. There are shops that do that, or you can file it flat, using a piece of glass to check level by spraying WD-40, or some such in order to see how well the glass laying on the WD-40, laying on the upside down head appears to be an even pattern, i.e., the oil will thusly be sandwiched between said, and show where the glass is above the oil, or not.

I say these things above in order to give you an idea of how much it all may appear to be a head-ache to you, or whether you want to part with cash in order to get the job done relatively quickly, where the mechanic will have the knowledge, the tools, gauges, quick parts acquisitions, and the quick ability to outsource the head leveling if needed, and any shims needed for your bridge-work. If any little fastener breaks, well they have the quick ability to drill out, or easy out said, and repair fairly quickly too. You on the other hand, might run into these same problems, and will find yourself making many trips, (not in the XJ), to hunt down the specialized tools, parts, and services.

Your choice. You might have a constructive discussion with your dad about the two courses of action. Your third option is to rid yourself of the vehicle. You will most likely take a loss at selling a vehicle with a problem that is not fixed. If you FORGET to mention said, gain top dollar.., then you might just cause anger.., i.e., bad karma.

I have an idea im going to post it up for sale right here on naxja, and not mention the head gasket since. They could just see it here on my post, jk jk. I have decided to just fix it. My dad says its fine as long as i get the jeep off of jack stands because its dangerous for the kids they take care of (their grandkids).

Im hoping that the head isnt cracked, or warped, and i just get to do a head gasket, this will allow me to get a new intake/exhaust gasket i think i might have a slight leak.

Thanks for all your help you rock dude! I will update every so often. I sure hope my oil pan and rms dont leak!

looks like things are getting even weirder. pulled the valve cover gasket, and no sign of water anywhere. The engine has sludge is some areas but its all oil, probably not the best cared xj around town. But any reason why there is no brown water/oil emulsion on the valve cover? I have the parts to do the head gasket but i can always return it if i need to, no need to waste money/time.

Right.., well your 'seen' leak drip(s) most likely take place in those areas within the gasket zones in the area of which they came down as you reported. Here is a side view.., take a look at where the piston is at top dead position, i.e., in/on the view at the back of the engine drawing.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/40.html

The small leak could finally 'puddle' enough on the deck between the block, and the head, i.e., within the gasket area, on the block, and not drip upwards, or not evaporate enough to find it's way upwards. The valve stem guide/0-rubber rings would prevent much of that.., meaning the most likely reason you found no great amount of anti-freeze anywhere after removing your valve cover. My guess is that you do not have a cracked head in the top area to permit oil/water moisture to rise up to the top surface of your head.., good.
HOWEVER: "The result of a failed head gasket is usually an internal leak between combustion and coolant areas"-->http://www.waynesgarage.com/tips/more-tip/head-gaskets.

There are a lot of educational sites, such as the above links in which you could wrap your mind around in order to confidently ascertain just where your problem exists; given your past overheating issue, and the evidence of anti-freeze found. I am still thinking you have the beginning of a bad head gasket minor leak. Again, there are products that will temporarily seal the gasket leak, but again.., most likely only temporarily. I am sure your confusion at not finding copious amounts of water within your oil when you dropped your oil pan's worth of it.., yet found anti-freeze water dripping from upper areas of your crank case is part of the whole deal, lol. Anyways.., a head gasket replacement is not a hard task as long as you read up on it.., and make notes so as to not forgo such tips before completion. The cost of having your problem fixed at a shop is expensive on one hand, i.e., labor costs, but on the other hand; your time, relatively inexpensive parts/gaskets, and work at fixing your own engine is a judgment call, although much cheaper. Don't forget to obtain new head bolts. The job is not too hard, (if you are healthy, and in shape), just a bit tedious for me, and others. Some use a little hoist, some don't. I've done it both ways and the difficulty is not too bad either way. An extra hand can always be beneficial at certain moments.

You have not mentioned any new found drips. If so.., reach up in the suspect area, and feel around the piston skirt for any moisture. You'd be lucky to find any unless within a few moments after a fresh drip. Here is what I'd do if none found. I'd start the engine, and run it for 15 seconds to pressurize the coolant system, shut down, and then with-in moments of that go underneath, feel around, and/or begin coating the outsides of the suspect area, possibly around two piston skirts with some powder; baby powder, talcum powder, all purpose baking powder, or some such, (there is probably an automotive brand, although I have no experience with, or of such), and coat all around the outer surface of the piston skirt with said. Commonly at drug stores can be found a small baby/child-tool for this: http://www.theemsstore.com/store/pr...ontent=12592&gclid=CP_j89Txp8kCFQtBfgod6JAN1g This little bulb like tool can be squeezed to suck up the talcum powder, and then be squeezed in order to coat your piston skirts in order to have the leak discolor/streak said coating to prove, or disprove this possibility.

The deal is to possibly find a wet streak at some near-time future moment of leakage. You might consider this procedure in order to see if a small amount of fluid is making it's way through the gaps of your piston rings, and sliding down the skirt, down, and down, i.e., indicating a gasket leak.., AND to fix the issue before your problem gets worse, i.e. where copious amounts of anti-freeze begin to get down into your oil, and out your exhaust, etc.

I love this guy!

You never disappoint! I was just surprised yet again because i kept hearing if you have bad head gasket..... you will have milk on the top of valve cover. I think you're right its a very early stage. I bought all the parts already, including head bolts. Im going to take the head off tonight and get the head machined including valve job for 125 (my fiance's mechanic father recommended the place). Sounds a little too good to be true, but we will see, im hoping for under 200. Im going to try and link a picture of my head gasket for analysis.

I just wanted to make the last post inquired as to if i should perform the job for certain or not, due to my incessant father, and confusing symptoms. BTW i dont have an overheating problem presently, it was an issue before i serviced the cooling system and new water pump.

and since you mentioned fitness and health before im 23 and decently fit, no problems here, my dad and i should have no problem lifting that beastly head out.

I dont know where you are, but if you should find yourself in socal im buying you a cold one :cheers:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-sYY6PeaEQUQXlWT0lyaFRUTXc

alright thats the link to some pictures i took. let me know what you think.

That sucker is heavier than hell! It also took me forever to get this thing out, i only got a few hours of rest last night.

shop just called head is cracked in 2 places, starting to wonder if the block is cracked too, it was 0630 casting.

time for long block? or a decent visual inspection should be enough to see cracks. i have a good magnifying glass.

Alright thanks for all the help guys! I took the thing to work today, all looks good. I also replaced injectors, and 1 chewed up motor mount. Thank god it looks like im not leaking any oil. I cant believe its finally done, Thank you so much for all the help :kissyou: