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Roaring noise....can it be a front u-joint?

UNCC Grad

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Salisbury, NC
I'm trying to track down a roaring noise that I've been getting in my 98 XJ, AW4 that starts about 15 mph and gets louder with rpms. It sounds like a wheel bearing but when on jack stands all four wheels have no play and sound smooth when rotating and listening with a stethoscope. I removed the front axle and drove it with no change. The sound is consistent on gravel or pavement so it's not tires. It also doesn't change whether on the gas or coasting...anything over 15mph I'm hearing the roar.

While on the jacks I did find that my right front passenger u joint has some play. Could this cause a roar in 2wd and 4wd like I've been hearing? It's the only thing I've seen so far that looks suspect.
 
Differential carrier bearing failures often make noise "at all speeds over 20MPH"

You may want to try putting the axles on jack stands and let it idle in drive and listen.
 
The roaring noise from my 98 XJ was coming from a bad pinion bearing. X2 on the carrier bearings as per md21722 if you're in there might as well do them all. Once the pinion bearing was replaced my roaring noise went away and that was about 20k ago. It did require a full tear down of the 8.25 so it won't be cheap or a quick fix. I had a roar that increased with vehicle speed and sounded like it was vaguely coming from the back (from the drivers seat).

During diagnosis, I had a buddy drive while I rode in the cargo area. With my ear to the floor, it was easy to hear that it was coming from the rear axle. This was confirmed while operating the vehicle on a lift with a stethoscope (only do this if you absolutely know what you're doing).
 
I'll try to lift all 4 wheels on jacks and let it idle in gear to see if I can track it down. I have my doubts that what I'm hearing is the u joint but it will be replaced since its bad.

With 2 small kids and this being a 2nd vehicle for me, I'll take my chances on a junkyard axle if I find that its the carrier bearings. I just can't justify $600+ to have mine rebuilt.
 
For the most part bearings aren't hardened all the way through. They are surface hardened and get softer as they wear. Depends on the manufacturer and even different batches from the same manufacturer as to how durable the hardening is.

Taking the weight off the bearing and spinning it to listen/feel for roughness may or may not tell you much. It may be in the beginning stages of complete failure and not rough enough to rumble without the weight on it.

Any play in the U-joints and they are failing. I usually pick up failing U-joints by the rust dust on the rubber U-joint cap seal. The roller bearings have gone dry and total failure is imminent.

I usually pick up failing hubs by taking the weight off the tire and grabbing the tire on opposite edges and wiggling it slowly (top and bottom works best). A little play in the hub bearings turns into a lot of play at the tire edges.

Bad pinion bearings often show up as a leaky seal first.

Carrier bearings often have a totally different tone, in forward and reverse. Same with pinion bearings, but with pinion bearings you can often feel kind of a stick slip feeling as the pinion doesn't mesh well with the ring gear with excessive wear. I usually pry up on the entire carrier with a rag and big pry bar, you can feel the play in the carrier bearings.

You are likely better off swapping in new carrier bearings than swapping an axle in. I've seen carrier bearings fail with as little as 130-160,000 miles. Hard to find a used axle assembly with less miles than this anymore in a junk yard.

Don't discount the spider gears and thrust washers. I've seen thrust washers really worn down and the spider gears get really sloppy. Heat damage is always suspect, once bearings (or gears) wear through the surface hardening they tend to overheat and it kind of cascades to total failure eventually.

Sometimes a little noise from well worn parts really doesn't mean a whole lot, I've driven many thousands of miles on differential bearings that were noisy. I always do a serious inspection though, just to know exactly what I have. Whether it is normal wear and tear or some specific part in the process of meltdown. When you drain the oil save it in a clean pan and pour it through a paint filter, just to see what kind of metal bits and pieces you have in there. Depends on the differential, but many have kind of a depression under the pinion inside the carrier housing. The depression holds oil and metal debris, a good spot to look if you suspect a failing pinion bearing.

Visually inspecting bearings and races is a good way to tell what you have, but if you take it apart to inspect it, chances are you will want to replace it. Blue or black spots or even straw colored patches are an indication of overheating. After the bearings have worn through the surface hardening you can often see kind of a grain in the metal, or spalling (flakes) and usually means the bearing is in all out failure mode.
 
Thanks 8mud, when I drained and cleaned the rear diff I didn't find any shavings or metal flakes. I didn't have access to a floor jack and jack stands so when I had the cover off I didn't get a chance to spin the rear axle and listen. Everything looked OK to the eye. Pinion at the rear feels tight.

My next step is to drain the front diff and check it out. If all looks well I may just have to run it until it gets worse and really shows up.

It's a secondary vehicle that I may drive 3-4k miles per year so I may have to live with some issues instead of dropping big money on a vehicle that rarely gets driven.
 
I just went through a similar problem in my '89. Sudden loud rear end shake and squeal, even at a walking pace.
I thought it might be a bent rear axle from the feel and was afraid to drive over 20 mph in case a wheel fell off.
Limped home, put it on stands and idled in place. Nothing obvious by ear, brought out the stethoscope and started poking around.
Nothing out of the ordinary at the rear axle, BUT there was a lot of noise at the rear of the 242 transfer case.
I pulled the rear drive shaft, bought and installed a new T.C. rear bearing and picked up new U-Joints just because the Jeep has 175K + miles.
Found my problem.
The rear U-Joint was frozen, I needed a hammer to get it to budge at all and had to beat on it far too long before it was replaced.
All is fine now, just not what I expected from the sound and feel.
Mike
 
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