• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

spotty acceleration after new distributor 89 XJ

DMS3XJ

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Monterey Bay
Hi there, driving up to the mountains my distributor broke. Had to leave the jeep for the weekend as we were a couple hours from home. Shop puts new distributor in and now until the car gets thoroughly warm I have jerky acceleration in first and second gear.

Does this sound like a timing issue? or maybe the shop went with a bad distributor? Plugs and wires are new. I'm thinking about pulling it out and going with an msd set up.
 
What part of your distributor broke?

Manual transmission, or auto?

Check all of your ground wires.

Something is messed up, but I do not know at this point.
 
I'm not sure of the correct term but the gear going down from the distributor unit to the cam broke a tooth.

Auto transmission. I've recently replaced some of the main grounds with cords from 5-90. But all this started very clearly when I picked it up from that shop. Is it possible that there is damage to the camshaft gear? Please bare with me as I haven't spent much time trying to understand how ignition systems work in detail. The car stopped running suddenly while driving down the freeway so I am imagining that the distributor gear broke and bound up the distributor shaft.
 
Renix has an adjustable TPS, consider checking/testing/adjusting that and go from there.
 
Thanks cruiser, I've actually been building a to-do list off of your tips page, I'll move #s 12, and 13 to the top along with testing/adjusting the TPS.

You should be doing 1,3,4, and 5 as a highest priority. Except now, since this came about since replacing the distributor, I would skip directly to 12 and 13 right away.
 
You should be doing 1,3,4, and 5 as a highest priority. Except now, since this came about since replacing the distributor, I would skip directly to 12 and 13 right away.
By the way, I never until now actually looked at that page. I like the nice green contacts on the headlight harness connector! Just for reference, that connector is also present in pre-97 Mopar Jeeps. I got a nice discount buying my stepson's 93 in part because of an eaten-away pin that killed the signals.
 
By the way, I never until now actually looked at that page. I like the nice green contacts on the headlight harness connector! Just for reference, that connector is also present in pre-97 Mopar Jeeps. I got a nice discount buying my stepson's 93 in part because of an eaten-away pin that killed the signals.

Glad you got to see it, Matthew.

Long live Renix!!
 
Hey guys, bringing this back with some new info.

Still haven't found a closer to my hesitation problem. Things I've now tried:
new TPS adjusted according to cruiser's guide
new CPS
new front 02 sensor
cleaned grounds
cleaned many electrical connectors
cleaned each fuel injector connection which seemed to help temporarily but it could have just been because the car was warm most the day.


The jeep is running great in idle and I can rev it all through its RPM band in park/neutral without experiencing a hesitation, but in drive it seems that whenever the engine is approaching its peak torque band the acceleration craps out and kind of chuggs like its not getting fuel or no spark or something.

I no longer think that it is timing related because it idles and revs fine out of gear. Same with fuel delivery. I haven't checked the fuel or vacuum lines yet with a gauge but there doesn't seem to be any issue supplying fuel or spark in neutral.

Also generally the problem goes away when warm, other times it just becomes less noticeable. I've been surfing the forums a lot and can't seem to find anything with these exact symptoms.

MAP sensor and CTS seem to be the other culprits that could be causing this problem but I don't quite see why the problem goes away when warm and doesn't happen in neutral.

renix gurus, please help!
 
Hey guys, bringing this back with some new info.

Still haven't found a closer to my hesitation problem. Things I've now tried:
new TPS adjusted according to cruiser's guide
new CPS
new front 02 sensor
cleaned grounds
cleaned many electrical connectors
cleaned each fuel injector connection which seemed to help temporarily but it could have just been because the car was warm most the day.


The jeep is running great in idle and I can rev it all through its RPM band in park/neutral without experiencing a hesitation, but in drive it seems that whenever the engine is approaching its peak torque band the acceleration craps out and kind of chuggs like its not getting fuel or no spark or something.

I no longer think that it is timing related because it idles and revs fine out of gear. Same with fuel delivery. I haven't checked the fuel or vacuum lines yet with a gauge but there doesn't seem to be any issue supplying fuel or spark in neutral.

Also generally the problem goes away when warm, other times it just becomes less noticeable. I've been surfing the forums a lot and can't seem to find anything with these exact symptoms.

MAP sensor and CTS seem to be the other culprits that could be causing this problem but I don't quite see why the problem goes away when warm and doesn't happen in neutral.

renix gurus, please help!

What about 12 and 13?
 
Here are my thoughts. This began happening after distributor replacement.

You sure you want to pass over the chance of finding the issue by NOT verifying the distributor indexing?
 
I had a somewhat similar problem with my 95 when the MAP sensor went bad, and that might be worth trying though it's a long shot. Make sure the rubber connectors are not loose or cracked, and that the odd double-titted connector at the throttle body is right side up.

On the 87 I found that the engine would run pretty well with the distributor advanced one tooth, but started hard. There are really only three positions in which it will run at all. One tooth retarded, it will start well but not accelerate. One tooth advanced, it will run well (or at least fairly well) but start hard. Mine acted as if it was hydrolocking. It was this way when I bought it, worked OK for a long time, but got worse with age.

Put the engine at TDC, mark the rotor position on the distributor case, and pull the distributor. Remember to move the oil pump a tiny bit, and remember that the rotor turns when you reinsert it. Try reinstalling it one tooth back from the original. If it runs well now, it was too advanced before. If it runs badly now, it was right before.

It's really pretty easy to do, and once done you will be sure it's right.
 
Cruiser you bring up a good point, and thanks Matthew, from most of the posts I have read it sounded like the engine wouldn't run at all with the timing off or at least would be extremely noticeable, these are the first symptoms of a 'slightly off' distributor I've found. I went to all the easy stuff first, and now will have to sit down and learn something to do the indexing.

After changing an 02 sensor a lot of the hesitation has gone away, but it still has a ghost of a hesitation and starting hard is a good way to describe it firing up. All things considered its running pretty well after chasing down some gremlins, clearly the distributor wasn't the only thing needing attention. If indexing the dizzy clears up the rest of this hesitation I just might find myself with a nice rig after all. Thanks guys. I'll take a look at the MAP too while I'm at it.
 
Cruiser you bring up a good point, and thanks Matthew, from most of the posts I have read it sounded like the engine wouldn't run at all with the timing off or at least would be extremely noticeable, these are the first symptoms of a 'slightly off' distributor I've found. I went to all the easy stuff first, and now will have to sit down and learn something to do the indexing.

After changing an 02 sensor a lot of the hesitation has gone away, but it still has a ghost of a hesitation and starting hard is a good way to describe it firing up. All things considered its running pretty well after chasing down some gremlins, clearly the distributor wasn't the only thing needing attention. If indexing the dizzy clears up the rest of this hesitation I just might find myself with a nice rig after all. Thanks guys. I'll take a look at the MAP too while I'm at it.

The Renix ECU adjusts the timing over a broad range. But it does have a beginning and an end or in other words when the distributor is one tooth off either direction it can have the wrong initial timing and off the other direction, run out of advance.

Some of the early Renix (87) had a cam timing issue and the initial distributor setup was off or wasn't exactly in the middle of the timing range. The distributors had to be re indexed. After market Cam producers, way back when, used the early grind for their copies and had the same issue. If you have an after market cam, you may need to re-index.

I've never had any issues with the Cam position sensor, I've run my motors with it hooked up and unhooked and never noticed any real difference. But it is worth a look, hard starts can be a Cam position sensor issue. Batch firing the injectors is bound to cause some kind of driveability issues and/or mileage issues.

Like Cruiser and Matthew said recheck your initial setup, rotor position at TDC and make sure your firing order is right.

I'm a curious type and have set up my Renix wrong in various ways just to see what would happen. It can be pretty darned wrong and still drive OK, not good but OK.

Having my roots in old school Hot Rods, I've tried many after market ignition setups and found it is hard to beat the Renix ignition. It's not real complicated, durable and plenty hot enough. The plugs seems to last forever, the distributor cap not nearly as long as the plugs last. It can be a bit finicky about what tape of plugs and wires you use, which usually shows up as a poor idle. Other than that, low voltage to the ignition module from various wiring, connector and/or switch issues can cause issues.

Best guess as to your problem is something with your initial setup or maybe low voltage pulse out of the CPS to the ECU. Maybe even a poor contact on your coil to cap wire, it is easy to not stick the end contact all the way in.

There are other inputs, but your throttle position sensor has a lot to do with the timing.

If I broke a tooth off of my distributor I'd shine a flashlight down into the cam distributor drive gears, rotate the motor and check them as good as possible.

Most times ignition issues show up as poor idle on the Renix, it has occasional misses and doesn't idle smoothly. Low high voltage often shows up as spark breakdown/degradation at high RPM's.

You need to inspect the O2 sensor wires where they run up behind the power steering bracket and make sure they aren't cooking on the exhaust. This won't usually affect your starts, but can sure enough mess with your mid range (it may buck around 2200 RPM) on a warm motor. You may have more than one issue going on here.

Just some ideas.
 
The Renix ECU adjusts the timing over a broad range. But it does have a beginning and an end or in other words when the distributor is one tooth off either direction it can have the wrong initial timing and off the other direction, run out of advance.

Some of the early Renix (87) had a cam timing issue and the initial distributor setup was off or wasn't exactly in the middle of the timing range. The distributors had to be re indexed. After market Cam producers, way back when, used the early grind for their copies and had the same issue. If you have an after market cam, you may need to re-index.

I've never had any issues with the Cam position sensor, I've run my motors with it hooked up and unhooked and never noticed any real difference. But it is worth a look, hard starts can be a Cam position sensor issue. Batch firing the injectors is bound to cause some kind of driveability issues and/or mileage issues.

Like Cruiser and Matthew said recheck your initial setup, rotor position at TDC and make sure your firing order is right.

I'm a curious type and have set up my Renix wrong in various ways just to see what would happen. It can be pretty darned wrong and still drive OK, not good but OK.

Having my roots in old school Hot Rods, I've tried many after market ignition setups and found it is hard to beat the Renix ignition. It's not real complicated, durable and plenty hot enough. The plugs seems to last forever, the distributor cap not nearly as long as the plugs last. It can be a bit finicky about what tape of plugs and wires you use, which usually shows up as a poor idle. Other than that, low voltage to the ignition module from various wiring, connector and/or switch issues can cause issues.

Best guess as to your problem is something with your initial setup or maybe low voltage pulse out of the CPS to the ECU. Maybe even a poor contact on your coil to cap wire, it is easy to not stick the end contact all the way in.

There are other inputs, but your throttle position sensor has a lot to do with the timing.

If I broke a tooth off of my distributor I'd shine a flashlight down into the cam distributor drive gears, rotate the motor and check them as good as possible.

Most times ignition issues show up as poor idle on the Renix, it has occasional misses and doesn't idle smoothly. Low high voltage often shows up as spark breakdown/degradation at high RPM's.

You need to inspect the O2 sensor wires where they run up behind the power steering bracket and make sure they aren't cooking on the exhaust. This won't usually affect your starts, but can sure enough mess with your mid range (it may buck around 2200 RPM) on a warm motor. You may have more than one issue going on here.

Just some ideas.

Great ideas, too.

For clarification though, that's not a cam sensor inside the Renix dizzy. It's there to fire the injectors sequentially with the firing order. You'll never notice if it went bad because the ECU will try to "guess" where it is and does a heck of a job at it.

As for the "timing", it is controlled by the ECU. Ever notice how wide the tip of the rotor is? Try and wrap your head around this:

When the ECU yells "Fire" to the ignition control module, where is the rotor in relationship to the dizzy terminal? Not to the terminal yet? Past the terminal too far?

What happens to the spark/secondary ignition strength when it has to jump the Grand Canyon in comparison to shooting from a rotor tip?

Tip 13 gets the thing right. Use Tip 12 to guarantee you're on #1 TDC.
 
Just to follow up, indexing the distributor solved my problem, and the jeep runs better than it has since I've had it.

Thank you cruiser, your guide was spot on down to the last angle. I, someone with very little experience, was able do everything in under two hours. Now I just feel dumb for not starting with that from the beginning, but I probably prevented some future problems along the way.

:cheers:
 
Just to follow up, indexing the distributor solved my problem, and the jeep runs better than it has since I've had it.

Thank you cruiser, your guide was spot on down to the last angle. I, someone with very little experience, was able do everything in under two hours. Now I just feel dumb for not starting with that from the beginning, but I probably prevented some future problems along the way.

:cheers:

You made my day buddy.
 
Back
Top