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Oil Pressure Concern

1998JeepXJ

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Havre, MT
I have a 98 xj with 150k, and I changed the oil in it today. Before, I had 45-50psi at cold start. About 25-35 at hot idle.

I changed to 5w30 valvoline max life synthetic blend and a mopar filter. Now,I have the same cold start oil pressure. But, I let it warm up and it has 35-40, but when it's fully hot (Highway driving) and I come to a stop, it had anywhere from 12-20 psi. When I touch the gas pedal, it rises to 40.

It seems like the gauge has a huge delay. I haven't verified with a mechanical gauge. Any input is extremely appreciated. Thanks!
 
What oil were you using prior to 5-30? The numbers are fine. Did you drop from a heavier weight oil.
My 87 runs 20 idle, 50-55 cruise with Mobil 1 5-40. 133k miles.
 
I just bought it two weeks ago from a dealer, so I don't know.

It seemed like it kind of fluctuated from 10-15 when hot. Made me nervous.
 
Cold oil pressure means nothing, unless it remains at zero. Oil pressure is directly tied to engine rpms.

The Factory Service Manual specifies the oil pressures should be a minimum of 13 psi at warm idle and between 35-70 psi at 55 mph. All of my XJ's have run about 35-45 psi at 55 mph. Lots of 4.0's have run for many miles with less than 13 psi at idle.

The oil pressure gauge and the charging gauge do not react instantaneously to rpm changes.
 
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The oil pressure sending unit is right above the oil filter and often gets in the way of a filter change up until the 2000 model year when the sensor was shortened and went from 2 wire to 3 wire. It is possible that you knocked the sending unit. They are notorious for going bad. You can verify against a mechanical gauge. I find dealer sensors work best. A NAPA Echlin sensor worked great in my 2001, but after 2 NAPA Echlins for my 97 XJ, NAPA refunded it and I used a dealer one. With the original sending unit, I would get 10-18 psi at hot idle. With the dealer sending unit, it goes no lower than 20-21 psi.
 
I just went for a drive in it. Warm idle is 23, hot is 15. If the a/c kicks on, it goes to about 13 with the drop in rpm. If I raise the rpm to anything over idle, it goes right up to 40.
Think I'm alright?
 
The JEEP Factory Service Manual specifies the oil pressures should be a minimum of 13 psi at warm idle, and between 35-70 psi at 55 mph.
 
Also, keep in mind that minimum 13 psi is usually with 10-30 oil, which is what jeep recommends. I used to have about 16-17psi with Mobil 1 10-30 full synthetic. I switched for 5-30 Mobil 1 extended performance (the "gold" also full synthetic) and my pressure is now about 13 when oil is over 200 degrees. Here is the thing: the 5w-30 I use now has a lower viscosity than the previous 10w-30 oil I had, this based on the spec sheet I got from mobiloil.com, so less pressure is something I've expected. I wouldn't worry about this, there is a direct correlation between flow and pressure, with less pressure there is more flow, so pressure by itself is not everything, a proper combination of flow and pressure is what makes the engine happy. Also, depends on how many miles and how worn is the engine, this is another reason many "high mileage" oils have higher viscosity... They try to compensate the engine wear (journals, bearings, etc). So same brand and same weight oils one "normal" one high mileage may have different viscosity, with high mileage having more than the "normal" one. But this just hides real issues, so I'd just use normal oil, synthetic if it's within the budget and when pressure issues arise, fix the real problem, don't change the oil to thicker just to trick the gauge to show more. The "old school" oil pressure recommendations are 10psi of pressure for every thousand rpm. Many folks here on the forum go with 40 weight oil mainly due to the fact that our 4.0 engine runs a bit hot, this due to relatively small radiator and lack of an oil cooler, it's not uncommon to see 220+ oil temperatures even when not off-roading, just city driving. When the oil reaches over 220, it tends to become even thinner, so that's the reason of choosing a higher weight, thicker oil. The proper way though would be to put an oil cooler to the jeep, but that's a pain in the butt since the front of the car is relatively packed with the existing radiator and maybe custom trans cooler, and there is no place to mount it on the engine either (best spot would be under the front bumper, which is exposed to potential debris). To make a long story short, I would agree with everybody else, don't worry, pressure looks good, just be religious with oil changes and this 4.0 engine would last till you retire, lol.

Edit: just saw you said the gauge fluctuates, first, I'd check the gauge connectors to be clean and tied. If it fluctuates slightly (i.e. Not jumping all over) you may have some sludge from improper, too many miles interval oil changes, best would be to take a look at your old oil that you just changed, you'll see the sludge in there if any. It could be also a faulty gauge, which is relatively easy to change.
 
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Many folks here on the forum go with 40 weight oil mainly due to the fact that our 4.0 engine runs a bit hot, this due to relatively small radiator and lack of an oil cooler, it's not uncommon to see 220+ oil temperatures even when not off-roading, just city driving. When the oil reaches over 220, it tends to become even thinner, so that's the reason of choosing a higher weight, thicker oil.

How have you come to the conclusion that the oil runs hot? 220* oil temp is enough to justify an oil cooler?
 
On my 87, the owner's manual calls for 10-40 or 20-50 above 32*, that's why I run a 5-40 or 15-40. 220* oil temp does not require an oil cooler.
 
How have you come to the conclusion that the oil runs hot? 220* oil temp is enough to justify an oil cooler?


On the trail I got to 250(oil temp), then I let it easier. 220 is something normal driving in the city. 220, or even 250 is not something horrible, in racing conditions oil gets easier to 300 degrees, but under those conditions you need to go thicker (usually). There are oil coolers thermostatically activated, like sandwich plate with a thermostat and the cooler lines plus cooler. Normal oil temperature is usually around 212 (about the same as coolant, plus minus few degrees depending on heat transfer rate) and all the oils are (again "usually") speced for this temperature (for example my 5w 30 extended performance has 10.6 cSt at 212 degrees and 3 cSt at 300-ish degrees (sorry, didn't do the exact conversion, the temps are in Celsius). Since oil acts also as a cooling agent, the main issue with temperature is that when it goes too hot, it doesn't do a good job cooling the engine, that's one of he reasons most diesels (which run hotter) have oil coolers. Monitoring the 4.0 oil temperature versus other cars I have/had (3.2 Vw r32, 5.0 ford, 3.0 turbo diesel Mercedes, 2.8 vm motori turbo diesel, 6.7 cummins), made me note this observation about 4.0 running hotter. I think an oil cooler would fix this issue, considering it is an issue at all, lol. Coolant-wise, before converting to the 3 fans from db off-road, my coolant was very often over 210 mark on the gauge.
 
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On my 87, the owner's manual calls for 10-40 or 20-50 above 32*, that's why I run a 5-40 or 15-40. 220* oil temp does not require an oil cooler.


Not trying to say anything, just to mention that an oil cooler wouldn't hurt. It is not *required*, I am not trying to say this, it would help a bit though, depending on driving habits, on/off road, etc. Not trying an argument with anybody, I just believe an oil cooler (especially thermostatically controlled) would help the 4.0 engine to run cooler. It's not a must, rather a nice add on.

I think for 99 manual says 10w-30, but since 90s oils "evolved" quite a bit.
 
Not trying to say anything, just to mention that an oil cooler wouldn't hurt. It is not *required*, I am not trying to say this, it would help a bit though, depending on driving habits, on/off road, etc. Not trying an argument with anybody, I just believe an oil cooler (especially thermostatically controlled) would help the 4.0 engine to run cooler. It's not a must, rather a nice add on.

I think for 99 manual says 10w-30, but since 90s oils "evolved" quite a bit.

Agree on thermostatically controlled. I added a water cooled sandwich filter adapter to mine, mainly to heat up the oil for short trip driving.

From where are you getting your oil temp readings? Thank you!
 
If the oil is getting up to 300* then an oil cooler would be a good idea. I'm glad to see someone that actually has data. So many people think they need an oil cooler just because "they heard".

Best bet is talk to your oil manufacturer and see what they recommend as far as temp is concerned. This is what Lake Speed @ Joe Gibbs had to say about the oil I use:
You want the oil to get up to 220 F in order to boil off any moisture and fuel that may be in the oil from condensation or blow-by. You are safe up to 280 F. If the oil temp starts to get up past 280 F, it would be wise to take it easy and let the oil cool down.

In regards to operating temperature, you'd like to see about 180 F oil temperature before you really stand in the gas hard.

I've had the opposite experience of the oil not over heating. The hottest I have ever seen was after a highway run with some WOT testing and during a cam break in. 238*F. I installed an oil to coolant heat exchanger to help bring the oil up to temp quicker. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1113130
 
The advise is excellent, when you start seeing oil temperatures around 260F you are getting close to the upper limit. If you start exceeding 280F you really want do to something. Thinner oil heats up and cools down faster. Thicker oil heats up and cools down slower but will maintain a thicker viscosity when its hot. Something like Tayln did to heat up the oil faster is actually kind of cool as it would heat his oil up faster which is great in cooler climates. You do need to be careful about overloading your cooling system though. Sometimes thermostatically controlled air to oil coolers are a good idea - you don't want to ALWAYS cool the oil so you should have a thermostat.
 
Agree on thermostatically controlled. I added a water cooled sandwich filter adapter to mine, mainly to heat up the oil for short trip driving.



From where are you getting your oil temp readings? Thank you!


I have a sandwich plate before oil filter, with port for gauge probe. Fwiw, the gauge is digital.
 
If the oil is getting up to 300* then an oil cooler would be a good idea. I'm glad to see someone that actually has data. So many people think they need an oil cooler just because "they heard".

Best bet is talk to your oil manufacturer and see what they recommend as far as temp is concerned. This is what Lake Speed @ Joe Gibbs had to say about the oil I use:


I've had the opposite experience of the oil not over heating. The hottest I have ever seen was after a highway run with some WOT testing and during a cam break in. 238*F. I installed an oil to coolant heat exchanger to help bring the oil up to temp quicker. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1113130


That's actually a very good observation that I've missed mentioning. Raising the temp over 212 to evaporate any condensation, especially in cold weather (summer time we get to 220 relatively fast). Other than heat exchangers/warmers, one could use some heating pads, available at decent prices at Amazon (you stick it on the oil pan and plug it in 110 v outlet) or more professional oil heaters from summit racing for mounting in the pan. For me personally, I will probably go with a sandwich plate thermostatically controlled oil cooler (via air), and probably install an oil heater in the oil pan, last to just plug in and warm the oil at over 212. Keep saying I'll swap for an om617 I already got, but I really like this 4.0 "worry free" bastard, lol, I think I'll keep it for a while.

Just looked at your thread, nice write up, it seems your solution may be a lot easier to implement than what I was thinking and definitely cheaper. You got me thinking...
 
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