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Spokes
October 14th, 2014, 19:16
Whats up guys? So ive got a few questions about the 8.25. So long story short I paid A to Z Fab to install 4.56 in my 30/8.25... i supplied them with motive gears and master rebuild kits with tiemkin bearings... well they managed to mess up the 8.25. its shot after about 2500 miles. So i needed the jeep as a DD at the time so i swapped in another 8.25 out of a donor XJ. SO... what i want to know is, is there anyway to install the center pin without grinding the gears or a noticed pin when running 4.56? I need the jeep back to 4x4 for winter and right now its 4.56/3.55 haha not gonna cut it! im not gonna waste my time with an 8.8 or finding a D44. the 8.25 is a great axle for up to 35s IMO.

If i run a powertrax locker would that help with the pin issue? I dont wanna spend 600 on a Detroit full case locker.

Thanks guys

torque062
October 14th, 2014, 22:05
There is a way. I have to rotate my carrier 180 and the pin very carefully slides out without touching the ring gear. I'd mount the ring gear to the carrier a couple times to find the perfect spot for it to be set so you dont have to notch a tooth.

VAhasnoWAVES
October 14th, 2014, 23:34
SO... what i want to know is, is there anyway to install the center pin without grinding the gears or a noticed pin when running 4.56?
typical SOP is that a tooth needs to be ground to fit the cross shaft into the carrier. because the axle is C-clip you cannot install the locker before the ring gear like you can in say your front D30.

I need the jeep back to 4x4 for winter and right now its 4.56/3.55 haha not gonna cut it!
understandable... but how is installing a different center pin in your 3.55 geared rear end going to change the fact that it is geared to 3.55? since your asking about installing it with 4.56 gears, i assume your going to have them redone? doing it yourself?

here is a thought.. did you break them in properly? and if so (hell, even if you didnt), why not see what the company has to say about the failure. 2500 miles should easily fall under a warranty.

im not gonna waste my time with an 8.8 or finding a D44. the 8.25 is a great axle for up to 35s IMO.
i could argue otherwise...

If i run a powertrax locker would that help with the pin issue? I dont wanna spend 600 on a Detroit full case locker.
same carrier, same axle shafts, same dimensions on the cross shaft. grind a tooth.

Spokes
October 15th, 2014, 06:12
typical SOP is that a tooth needs to be ground to fit the cross shaft into the carrier. because the axle is C-clip you cannot install the locker before the ring gear like you can in say your front D30.


understandable... but how is installing a different center pin in your 3.55 geared rear end going to change the fact that it is geared to 3.55? since your asking about installing it with 4.56 gears, i assume your going to have them redone? doing it yourself?

here is a thought.. did you break them in properly? and if so (hell, even if you didnt), why not see what the company has to say about the failure. 2500 miles should easily fall under a warranty.


i could argue otherwise...


same carrier, same axle shafts, same dimensions on the cross shaft. grind a tooth.

the gears were broken in properly. I broke them in according to what the shop said. I drove them about 15 miles at different speeds and then park it overnight. I did the same thing the next morning and let it sit for about 3 hours. The issue I believe was at the shop messed up the backlash and the gear mesh was way too tight. Once I finally had the gears broken in and drove on them for some time the rear diff. So hot that I cannot touch it. This was not a case of break in issue. I am currently arguing with the shop and attempting to get my money back. The shop was a to Z fabrication in PA.

I guess I could swap in 8.8. If I can find one in good shape.

this whole ordeal has just been extremely irritating because I'm sure as all of you know replacing gears is not cheap and now I am without the Jeep and I am out a lot of money.

sunburned
October 15th, 2014, 07:06
Doesn't sound like anything is broken just because the diff gets hot. What exactly is broken or messed up? Do you get really loud gear whine or anything? Did you change the gear oil after 100-500 miles or so to get any metal shavings out?

Go back to the shop and have them look over the gears again, they shouldn't have a problem with that. If you are too far away to do that, then I dunno what to tell ya. Maybe take just the axle to them since you took it out of the jeep? Make sure to tell them it's your DD, since gears usually get setup tighter on trail rigs because they never see high speeds. Have them show you the backlash or tooth patter when they are done.

I've only heard good things about AtoZ, I'm sure you guys can work it out.


And yes, you have to grind a tooth to get the pin in. I had to with my powertrax no-slip as well. No way around it that we could see. Tried grinding the pin instead and it made the locker malfunction.

lazyxj
October 15th, 2014, 10:26
. Once I finally had the gears broken in and drove on them for some time the rear diff. So hot that I cannot touch it. This was not a case of break in issue. .


So, exactly what is wrong with the gears besides getting "hot".
Gear noise, torn up parts, loose yoke or what?
Every axle gets hot when used. If just getting hot, how hot?
When hot, shoot with a infrared thermometer and see what the temp is.

Spokes
October 15th, 2014, 18:40
So, exactly what is wrong with the gears besides getting "hot".
Gear noise, torn up parts, loose yoke or what?
Every axle gets hot when used. If just getting hot, how hot?
When hot, shoot with a infrared thermometer and see what the temp is.

When i say hot, i mean so hot the center housing got so hot that i could NOT touch it. And i am talking about the center where its the thickest. Besides the fact that they ground a ton off 2 of the ring gears the axle got super hot, hummed like crazy too. The axle is no longer under my jeep it was that bad. right before i switched it the axle was chattering and pulsing leading me to believe if i had driven it any more it was going to lock up solid. That was also with lucas 140W85 heavy duty oil in it too! and since the first drive it leaked gear oil at the yoke... some pics...

Now remember as i said before, i bought the gears and install kits about a year ago and than paid a shop, a "professional" shop ( A to Z fabrication ) and this is what i got... i could have done this hack job at my house for free. The gears are Motives and the install kits used Timkin bearings. so its not like i gave them some cheap ass no name brand stuff... theyre response to all this was that i gave them shitty parts and its my fault? Last time i check motive gears were made by richmond who is pretty much top of the line?


these were the night i was taking the axle out. so it had about 2500 at the most on the new gears.
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j363/spokes1/IMG_20140905_204451_855_zps8fuaf7wk.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/spokes1/media/IMG_20140905_204451_855_zps8fuaf7wk.jpg.html)
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j363/spokes1/IMG_20140905_204446_871_zpsftvxt66o.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/spokes1/media/IMG_20140905_204446_871_zpsftvxt66o.jpg.html)
you can see the oil all over the tank and everything else.
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j363/spokes1/IMG_20140905_204457_347_zpsmva0mhu6.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/spokes1/media/IMG_20140905_204457_347_zpsmva0mhu6.jpg.html)


these pics were taken with about 2300 miles on the gears. you can see the discoloration.
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j363/spokes1/IMG_20140819_190411_342_zpsy9zdxkxh.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/spokes1/media/IMG_20140819_190411_342_zpsy9zdxkxh.jpg.html)
notice how much they cut off the ring gear.... :soapbox::soapbox:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j363/spokes1/IMG_20140819_190222_946_zpsjiuwinvs.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/spokes1/media/IMG_20140819_190222_946_zpsjiuwinvs.jpg.html)
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j363/spokes1/IMG_20140819_185953_615_zpsxpfxbtqm.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/spokes1/media/IMG_20140819_185953_615_zpsxpfxbtqm.jpg.html)

whitexj98
October 15th, 2014, 19:46
There is a way. I have to rotate my carrier 180 and the pin very carefully slides out without touching the ring gear. I'd mount the ring gear to the carrier a couple times to find the perfect spot for it to be set so you dont have to notch a tooth.

You have done this with 4:56 gears?

I tried every which way and couldn't get the pin to clear the teeth.

Spokes
October 15th, 2014, 20:03
You have done this with 4:56 gears?

I tried every which way and couldn't get the pin to clear the teeth.

Correct that is with 4.56. In my opinion shaving the gear is NOT the correct way. I do know people however running 4.56 in a 8.25 and they did not have to shave the ring gear or use a notched pin.

I might just say screw it and go with an 8.8 I'm undesided as of now.

whitexj98
October 15th, 2014, 20:37
I shaved mine, its not really a big deal. Looks like they shaved a little more then needed but don't think that had anything to do with your issues.

torque062
October 16th, 2014, 04:28
You have done this with 4:56 gears?

I tried every which way and couldn't get the pin to clear the teeth.
Yes. I can unbolt the lock pin and flip the carrier over and slide the cross shaft out between two of the teeth on the ring gear.

The best way to go about it would be to mount the ring gear to the carrier with a couple bolts, then try to slide the cross pin in. If it doesn't fit, rotate the ring gear on the carrier and try again.

Xtreme XJ
October 20th, 2014, 00:54
I too have a few teeth ground on my 4.56s... I think it's fine... has been for 16+ years... you might relieve the sharp edges slightly... a new pinion seal should stop the leak... not sure about the gear set up though ?
Have you tried to work out something with the shop ?

Curt

sunburned
October 20th, 2014, 10:21
I shaved mine, its not really a big deal. Looks like they shaved a little more then needed but don't think that had anything to do with your issues.

Same. Mine was like that for 5 years. I actually broke a couple teeth off my 8.25 ring gear in 2 different places, but the spot that we ground down was unaffected.


Other than just bitching back and forth with AtoZ, have you taken the axle back for them to look at? Or given it to someone else to look over? I'm sure it would be fairly easy to pop the cover, pull the case, and pull the pinion to see where the problem lies.