How much money to build a nice stroker?

Okay, so I've been wanting to build a stroker motor lately and now that I have the money I'm starting to look around. At first I was looking at ATK and Titan to see how much it would run me to purchase a pre-assembled stroker kit. Here's one that I found...

http://www.titanengines.com/jeep-stroker-complete-engine-upgrade-kit-4-0-to-4-6-4-7/

Now, I don't know if this is a good price or not, you guys will have to tell me. I'd like to save as much as possible, however, I don't want to 'skip' on anything and I'd prefer to purchase everything brand new or remanufactured.

I thought about piecing a stroker kit together myself but I don't even have the slightest idea where to even start let alone what I would need. It almost seems more convenient to purchase a 'kit' just to avoid searching everywhere and trying to piece everything together.

I should mention that I'm looking for an end result that is street drivable as this is a daily driver. It doesn't see any rock crawling, just trails, snow, sand, and stuff like that. My end goal is just something that has a bit more power. I just want a bit more 'passing power' and torque without having to swap in a V8 or something.

Last but not least, the Jeep has a 4.5" RE short arm lift, 31" tires, and stock 3.55 gearing. None of that is ever going to change. What I mean by that is I'm not going to decide to put on 33" or bigger down the road.

I appreciate any advice that can point me in the right direction. As mentioned earlier, I have seen these pre-assembled 'kits' but I'm not sure if they're ripping you off or not versus piecing everything together myself.

I don't mind spending a few hundred dollars more for a kit just for convenience but it it's in excess of $400 or more that I'd be spending just for a 'kit' then I'd rather piece it together myself.

Also, two other things I forgot to include that would be relevant to whether I do this build or not...

1) Reliability - If I'm going to lose some serious reliability it's not worth it to me. I like that the 4.0 motors are one of the most bulletproof motors out there and I don't want to sacrifice much of that.

2) Fuel - I accept the fact that these Jeeps don't get good gas mileage. However, I don't particularly want to be forced to have to put premium 92 octane fuel in every time I fill up. Not sure that would be worth the long run cost.

every time I ever researched strokers, titan was always named as the worst crate engine available. by that logic a pile of parts from them wouldn't be a good idea. but I've never bought from them.

these guys did a stroker build back in 2009. it's a good place to start researching. they discuss cost, fuel, and predicted HP. I think they even dyno it
http://www.powerblocktv.com/episode/TK2009-07/cheep-cherokee-part-6-budget-stroker-reassembly

before spending the money on a stroker, especially if your engine is still in decent shape, i would recommend swapping gear sets in your axles. a 4.10 gear would make the jeep feel like you put in a stroker motor. those 3.55s with 31 inch tires is making it sluggish. the 4.10s will give you back that "passing power" you are looking for.

2stix said:

before spending the money on a stroker, especially if your engine is still in decent shape, i would recommend swapping gear sets in your axles. a 4.10 gear would make the jeep feel like you put in a stroker motor. those 3.55s with 31 inch tires is making it sluggish. the 4.10s will give you back that "passing power" you are looking for.

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This is something I hadn't considered but should have thought of.

The only issue with the gearing is that I wouldn't want something so extreme that it worsens gas mileage and makes the car sit at really high RPMs while cruising on the highways.

Assuming the Cherokee has a 29" tire stock and I have 31" tires now that would mean that my gearing should be around 3.79 (or somewhere close to it) in order to get back to the stock drivability. Wouldn't 4.10 be a bit extreme or no?

What transmission are you running, auto or manual?

The gearing of the trans will affect the low end and final drive ratio, so this is important to know when selecting new gears.

Elevation where you operate your rig the most?

The engine in a rig that wheels/DD at sea level to 3000 ft will make more power than one that operates at 4000-9000 ft, so you could benefit from even lower gearing at higher elevations.

Never going to run a larger tire than a 31"........wish I had a buck for every time I've heard that.

Well, according to Wikipedia the elevation here in Portland, Oregon is 50 ft. and the highest elevation here is 1,188 ft. So, realistically speaking I doubt I'll ever be above 3,000 ft elevation and if so it would only be very, very rarely.

So, I guess my elevation is pretty low! The transmission is the AW4 auto.

just to put it into perspective, some XJs came from the factory with the 4.10 ratio with the factory tow package. so the fact that you are running 31 inch tires will pretty much put your ratio back to the way it felt with stock size tires. i seriously doubt you would feel over geared with 4.10s, but if you want you can go to a 3.73 but IMOH that is not enough of a jump in ratio. you must also account for tire weight and such when re-gearing. that 3.79 you mentioned is only a calculated number with no variables. add the added weight of the tires and you will be much happier with the 4.10s.
as for the stroker. sorry i can not help you there. but there are alternatives to gain more power from your stock engine. head work (porting) and cam changes make a huge difference especially if you bump the compression ratio a bit.

everyone read my mind on gearing first. 4.10s is where you want to be, and youll like being slightly over geared ratber than you will wasting the money and undershooting. youll be much happier for a fraction of the cost of a stroker.

if you want a stroker after that... even though the 4.0 is known as reliable, almost every stroker ive seen has had cam shaft failures within 100k miles, some well below 50k. those that upgrade roller lifters and rockers seem to get a lot better life out of it. but at that point youve taken a 25 year old tractor motor and thrown a ton of money into it. you could probably pay for a 5.3 swap. just some food for thought.

Okay so now that you guys have me swayed towards a possible 4.10 conversion the question is this...

How much do you think that would set me back and where is a good place to get the parts?

check the site sponsors. many do package deals. becoming a payed member may land you some discounts as well.

Since you run an 01 XJ with an auto, 4:10's would be acceptable......BUT, plan on spending $6-800.00 on a re-gear, depending of you need to replace carriers or not, if you hire all of the work out. There are a few more factors to consider.........

Food for thought, with 4.5" of lift, you can upgrade to a 32" or 33" tall tire when the 31's are done. It's part of a common and natural evolution that those of us who have been wheeling XJ's for a couple of decades have been through. This increase in tire size with 4:10 gears will make your AW4 tranny want to hunt between 3rd-OD while cruising, trying to find the proper gear. Too many folks have dealt with this/are currently dealing with this issue, because someone told them (likely a gearing chart or 4WPW employee) that they will kill their fuel economy by going with 4:56's.

Real world advice from those who've been there and done that (and likely paid twice to re-gear) is that you will burn WAY more fuel if your gear ratio is too high, than too low. The reason for this is the engine has to work harder in a under-geared rig to move X pounds of rig down the road, which requires more fuel.

Gearing charts don't factor in the increased rolling resistance from larger tires, increased wind resistance due to lifting a rig with the aerodynamic properties of a brick and added weight from HD bumpers, armor, winches, cargo, trailers, husky passengers, etc. All of these things are variables that only you can calculate, based on how you've built your rig and the planned usage. It's all part of the homework before plunking down the $$.

I appreciate the input guys, thanks a lot!

I was set on a stroker motor for more 'power' but now you have me realizing that I can probably get back the power I used to have by re-gearing it.

Right now I have an intake, ceramic coated Banks headers, full Magnaflow exhaust, Thunderbolt high flow cat, 62mm throttle body, and that's about it. Still, I figure that should be enough for about 15 extra horsepower at the wheels over stock.

Anyways, I understand the constant progression in tire size upgrades but I've owned a Cherokee for 5 years now and never wanted to go over 31". I think this is mostly because I like the look, but also I don't do the kind of wheeling that some of you guys probably do.

Mine sees snow at the mountains, some off-roading at the beach, trails, and other light stuff. No rock crawling or anything serious though so the 31" tires suit me fine.

In my personal opinion though once I switched to 31" tires I noticed the Jeep feels a little sluggish. It's probably not that noticeable to anyone except me and that's because I've owned it for so long that I'm used to how it felt on the stock 29" tires.

I'd like to get it back to that stock feel and maybe even improve upon it a little bit so if a 4.10 is a good way to get me there I'm happy to do it. Sounds like it won't be nearly as much money as a stroker motor at least.

I'm going to have to look around and see if there's one place I can get everything I need from. I feel comfortable doing engine work myself but not re-gearing so I'll leave that to a professional.

I guess the question now is that once I'm in there re-gearing everything wouldn't it be wise to put some lockers in at the same time?

Odd, I found these guys who sell Spicer ring & pinion kits...

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/jeep-ring-pinions/jeep-cherokee-xj.htm

You'll notice though that they have a Spicer 4.10 kit for the front Dana 30 axle but they don't have a 4.10 for my rear Dana 35 axle (though they do have a 4.11) though. Does that extra .01 make a difference? Do they have to be a 100% match for front and rear? I would assume so but that's such a small difference I had to ask.

Wouldn't let me edit my last post so I'll write a new one...

So I think I am going to go the re-gearing route with this kit I found from one of the sponsors...

http://www.justdifferentials.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=GPTJ35-4.11

The question is, if I plan on staying with 31" tires do you think that a 4.11 is the way to go or should I try a 4.56?

I would like decent fuel economy as well as a highway cruising speed (65 mph) that isn't super high in the RPMs as that will just waste fuel.

Also, since I don't have lockers and would like to add some I suppose that now is a better time than any to add lockers, yes?

to cliffnote what XJEEPER said... 4.10s will be spot on for 31s. if you ever go bigger (which is easy to do) youll be unsatisfied with your purchase. if 33s are on your radar, 4.56s should be considered. some will boast 4.88, id argue otherwise.

PumpinIron said:

Wouldn't let me edit my last post so I'll write a new one...

So I think I am going to go the re-gearing route with this kit I found from one of the sponsors...

http://www.justdifferentials.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=GPTJ35-4.11

The question is, if I plan on staying with 31" tires do you think that a 4.11 is the way to go or should I try a 4.56?

I would like decent fuel economy as well as a highway cruising speed (65 mph) that isn't super high in the RPMs as that will just waste fuel.

Also, since I don't have lockers and would like to add some I suppose that now is a better time than any to add lockers, yes?

Click to expand...

dont be afraid of turning higher RPMs. the 4.0 actually makes best power and mileage ~2500. think of it this way... with 33s and 3.55s being turned by my manual AX15, i woud run about 3k rpms in 4th and get better gas mileage than 2k rpms in 5th. this is because even though i was only holding 2k rpms, the throttle was wide open. while it was less in 4th gear.

also, you can upgrade to lockers now as youll be in there. now is the time to do it. but if your content with lunchbox lockers you dont need to at the moment.







im going to open another can of worms right now...

what rear axle do you have? you can install a 4.10 equipped 8.8 with either an open diff or LSD from an explorer and get a strength upgrade as well as disk brakes. best part is the bolt pattern is the same. that will save you some money on the cost of gears (pending local prices, and if you can get one in good condition).

Get an axle code D2 (limited slip) or 42 Open 8.8 out of a Ford Explorer, those are 4.10 geared from the factory. Personally I'd go 4.56's. Don't spend any $$$ on the Dana 35, it's a turd, small thin axle tubes and they tend to bend even on 31's.

I'm leaning towards the 4.10 gears since I'm content with 31" tires. On top of that I was thinking of adding a locker to both the front and rear at the same time just because I'll be in there so why not? I was looking at Aussie lockers but I'm not sure an auto locker is a good idea for the street. I'd probably be better off with some sort of 'on-command' locker that I can select on or off.

I've heard the D35 is pretty crappy. I would consider upgrading the rear axle but I would want something that is a bolt-on affair, easy to find, and will work with my factory ABS (it is a daily driver after all).

Open to suggestions on the rear axle! Remember, I don't need something huge like a Dana 60 or anything.

markw said:

Get an axle code D2 (limited slip) or 42 Open 8.8 out of a Ford Explorer, those are 4.10 geared from the factory.

Click to expand...

Are those axles a bolt-on affair or would there be a lot of other stuff I'd have to change in order to make it work?

Oh, and will it matter if I have a 4.11 mixed with a 4.10? Does that little .01 make a difference?

Ya do axle and gear work. Also get a ford 8.8 from a junk yard for around $200 that already has posi and 4:10s.

4:11 vs 4:10 should be fine.