Shackle Question

Hey guys. I was going to introduce myself and post a few pictures of my stock Cherokee for fun, so I'm not just that new guy who comes on here and posts a few questions about his new build. But I read in the sticky not to overload this area with pics. So maybe I'll do that in another section.

Anyway, I finally got my motorcycle running and now it's sold. I can finally afford to build up my jeep a bit. Something I wanted to do seven years ago when I bought it.

It's a 98 with all stock parts. And death wobble. I'm hoping some of the parts I'm replacing might be part of the wobble problem and I can kill two birds with one stone. I plan on purchasing a RE 3.5 Super Flex with full leafs. I will be running 31x10.50 duratrac.

My main question now is what to do about my shackles. I have been reading a lot about relocation and that seems to be universally suggested. I do not want to add any lift besides what the kit provides. I am thinking HD Off Road relocation brackets. http://hdoffroadengineering.myshopify.com/products/no-lift-xj-shackle-relocation-brackets

I'm wondering if I should get the RE shackles to go along with this. http://www.rubiconexpress.com/Lift-Kits-Suspensions-Shocks/Shackles.aspx?t_c=1&t_s=101&t_pt=8660 I can't find much info on how if there will be a height increase with this particular combination.

I do not plan on crazy off roading with this Jeep, just want to add some performance to decrease the chances of getting stuck on camping roads I drive on. I plan on using it primarily for camping and snowboarding; I need to be able accommodate the weight of camping gear and passengers.

I have been reading posts from this site for years now and am happy to finally be a member. Seems like a cool place.

Honestly unless the cause of your death wobble is worn control arm bushings nothing you plan to replace will help. I would first fix what ever is the cause of that first. My guess would most likely by a worn track bar/track bar bushing but also check wheel bearings and tie rod ends. I would take the money you plan to spend on shackles and shackle relocation to correct that issue. You can however use factory shackles with the relocation and get little to no additional lift. I don't think you will have any problems with the kit you are planning to purchase and should really like the duratracs. I have run the duratracs in the past and they are a great AT, very aggressive for an AT, quiet, and wear great.

I forgot to mention that I do plan on replacing all of my bushings. I was thinking of buying a complete bushing kit, but don't suppose I will need the full kit since the lift will come with lower CA bushings and leaf bushings correct?

So the stock shackles will compliment the RE springs and HD relocators ok? Then I would just need to get new bushings for the stock shackles.

I'm happy to hear another good review of the duratracs. I am excited to try them out.

FYI, those Dana 30 bushing are a PITA to get out, but patience will yield success. As with most Jeep projects, one thing will lead to another. I installed the exact lift you did and I realized, I might as well replace some of this stuff while it's apart. I didn't have DW, but I would highly suggest you pop the knuckles off and replace upper and lower ball joints on both sides. Also, replace your steering drag link, tie rod and tie rod ends. You will be amazed at the difference. Worst case is you will need wheel bearings too, but I didn't (and my Jeep came from Michigan!). IMHO, this set a baseline for me and I now know what was replaced and when. You will like that setup. I added a lunchbox locker in the rear and I went everywhere. A very capable off road rig/daily driver.

Have fun!

Sweet, totally the kind of info I am looking for. Things to consider doing while I have it up in the air for the lift install. Ball joints and wheel bearings seem like a decent amount of work with the limited tools I have. I'll have to Google some write ups on those.

When I replace track bars and tie rods etc will I have to change their location at all with this RE lift? I've heard of pitman drops and such. I'm hoping I can leave things where they are

I think you'll have better luck with a locker than a lift for backcountry forest roads on the way to snowboarding.
Lock it, do WJ arms up front, do all of the steering stuff and enjoy it. Nothing drives better than a stock jeep.

I assume the RE kit comes with a new trackbar and bracket. You should not have to do anything with the pitman arm and steering at 3".
For the ball joints, rent the tool from the parts store. The wheel bearings won't require anything out of the ordinary. a 12 point 13mm socket and a breaker bar, plus some muscle and a torch if they're badly rusted in place.

You won't be disappointed with the HD Offroad parts, Brian is a helluva dude and the parts are super beefy.

Oh man, you kind of half read my mind. I love a nice stock Cherokee and really don't have the capacity to be worrying about new angles and things like that. So now you really have me thinking.

If my goal is to remain stock, would you still recommend shackle relocation?

Grand Cherokee control arms?

Never mind. Just read a write up on the WJ CA. Still wonder about the shackle relocation on a stock setup

cmahaff said:

Oh man, you kind of half read my mind. I love a nice stock Cherokee and really don't have the capacity to be worrying about new angles and things like that. So now you really have me thinking.

If my goal is to remain stock, would you still recommend shackle relocation?

Click to expand...

yes. and if you want to make it "upcountry"ish, do the regular shackle relocation box and put a 1" spacer up front.

That will fit 245/75R16's (stock rubicon TJ size) very nicely, or 30x9.5's with no rubbing.
You can fit 31x10.50's with that, and with the WJ arms they won't rub turning in a parking lot. They will rub if you take it and flex it up on the trail and turn lock to lock.

I'm a fan of lifting rigs and the like, but once you go down that rabbit hole you're in. You're talking about new driveshafts, new this, new that, and constantly having to do something to it.

I think that for forest roads and the like you will get less stuck with locked axles than you would with lift and open diffs. If it's a daily driver you might want to go ahead and make the investment in selectables.

You'd be amazed were a stock XJ will go with lockers and armor.

If you want to know what it looks like:


that's my wife's daily driver with WJ arms, 1" of lift and 245/75as on stock 16's.
It's since gotten some TJ rubicon Moabs. She drove it all over Harlan.

^ quality info right there.

On shackles, I love my JKS. They really improved the ride for me over the stubby flat stock ones.

A side note on 'leaf packs'. They advertise X amount of lift when in reality is inches above that. Just my observation.

If your leafs/bushings are good, get the relocation boxes from Brian and add a JKS shackle.

I definitely need new leaf springs.

Thanks for the pic 87manche. Looks nice.

So do you guys think a 3.5 RE would cause me to need that many other adjustments or part replacements? I was trying to keep it small and simple with the 3.5. It seemed that since i need to replace the leafs and lower CA I might as well lift it....

I have taken this jeep on some pretty cool roads and have always been impressed

But as stated I don't really want to deal with a lot of other necessities that it sounds like this little lift might cause.

That 3.5 lift kit is pretty set up out of the box. They are fixed lower control arms and it keeps the stock uppers. You won't have to worry about any new steering angles with that small of a lift. Out back, the only thing you might need is a 1" transfer case drop and some angle shims for the leafs. This is if you keep the stock drive shaft in place and to avoid vibrations in the new driveline angle. The front won't need anything. This is a great little lift for 31's. Another thing to think about too is the offset of your wheels. I went with some D window steelies with a 4.5" offset. This kept my tires inside the wheel wells at full flex. I had a little rubbing when turning, but not enough to create any real damage. I wheeled this setup for over 2 years before going to 4.5" with 33's.

Re: Shackle Question and expanded questions now about stock refresh

87manche said:

yes. and if you want to make it "upcountry"ish, do the regular shackle relocation box and put a 1" spacer up front.

Click to expand...

I'm liking the sound of this more and more. A few questions:

1. Get the HD shackle relocation kit. Should I use my stock shackles? They look ok I think. Probably need new bushings.

2. Any suggestion on what brand of leaf springs I should get? Will any leaf spring work with the relocation kit?

3. What brand of parts should I be looking for in general in the stock world? I have been focusing so much on this lift I feel lost again. These quadratec magazines I get have all the parts for a Cherokee listed in the back that seem to be stock, but I don't even know what brand they are.

4. What kind of WJ control arms did you buy?

My dad was telling me some guy was talking to him about replacing the track bar on his Cherokee. He mentioned that he drilled a bigger bolt hole for the frame side (passenger side) to make it more stable. Anyone hear of this?
I am all for searching and doing research on my own. And I will do that if I have too. I know it takes people's time to respond, so I appreciate it; I am just feeling pressured because my mechanic friend is only able to help me next friday and saturday. So I would like to have an idea of a few things to order and what I want him to help me with.

87manche said:

I'm a fan of lifting rigs and the like, but once you go down that rabbit hole you're in. You're talking about new driveshafts, new this, new that, and constantly having to do something to it.

I think that for forest roads and the like you will get less stuck with locked axles than you would with lift and open diffs. If it's a daily driver you might want to go ahead and make the investment in selectables.

You'd be amazed were a stock XJ will go with lockers and armor.

Click to expand...

Nate has a valid point.

The XJ had a factory Option, which was the "UpCountry" package. 1" lift, skid plates, and 235X75X15 tires. They did this with a simple spring change and nothing else. 1" is within the range of the stock lower control arm adjustments. This combo would easily fit 30" tires and would get around well. An XJ has around 6" of axle clearance stock (with 205X75X15). 30" tires brings that to 7.5" or so (30" tires are actually around 29.5" measured".

If the only "Off-Road" use you are going to make of this vehicle is camping and snowboarding, I wouldn't spend the time and effort to lift it 3", let alone install a shackle relocation kit on it, or relocate the track bar.

Save the bucks, and the headache and leave it mostly stock.
A 1~2" lift as Nate suggested, or an OME lift will fit the bill (http://www.quadratec.com/products/76090_800.htm), leave the ride stock feeling, avoid all the issues everyone has with vibrations, alignment, and the like, and will allow you to put taller shoes on the Jeep to give you more clearance at the axle. Steering rub can be dialed out by putting washers under the stock steering stop bolts.
Remember to replace your speedometer gear for the tire you end up using. If you are running a 5spd, I would be temped to go with 30" tires, an auto you could go up to 31" tires. The reasons are all axle gear related.

Though you are only going to use it on roads it seems, you could add a set of rock sliders incase you do get a wild hare. I have seen more banged up rockers an doors than I care to think of because someone decided that all you needed to go "Off-Road" was lift and tires.

As far as preventing sagging for all that camping equipment and all, you may want to consider air shocks in the rear. I know, it's all kinds of 70's way to jack up the back of your El Camino, but the truth of the matter is that without having to change components, you can even out your load, and when you are done, can easily return the Jeep to it's previous height.

-Ron

Re: Shackle Question and expanded questions now about stock refresh

cmahaff said:

I'm liking the sound of this more and more. A few questions:

1. Get the HD shackle relocation kit. Should I use my stock shackles? They look ok I think. Probably need new bushings.
You'll have to cut the bracket up for stock shackles to swing. Comanche shackles are a half inch longer. If you're just going to do the HD Upcountry springs, then I probably wouldn't bother with the shackle relocation. Buy stock replacements and upcountry springs.

2. Any suggestion on what brand of leaf springs I should get? Will any leaf spring work with the relocation kit?
whatever rockauto has that fits the spring code.

3. What brand of parts should I be looking for in general in the stock world? I have been focusing so much on this lift I feel lost again. These quadratec magazines I get have all the parts for a Cherokee listed in the back that seem to be stock, but I don't even know what brand they are.
Just quality replacements. I shop a lot on the rockauto.
4. What kind of WJ control arms did you buy?
The stock WJ arms are all you'd need. They're the same bushing to bushing length, but fully boxed and have a kink in them for tire clearance. You will not rub 30's on anything. Do the uppers as well, they are way stronger.

Click to expand...

If you want to ditch the stock trackbar then just do the whole unit with a new bracket. If he drilled out the frame side for a bolt then he probably used something like the RE1600 trackbar with a rod end. You cannot drill out the bracket and use a stock trackbar, it has a tapered end just like a tie rod end.

If you're doing the steering components buy v8 ZJ (Grand cherokee 1996) stuff. It's solid bars rather than hollow.

Rock sliders is a good suggestion, just for that occasional time you have to slide the body over something. T-Case skid for the same reason.

Chuck a lunchbox locker in the front axle and it will be transparent when you're in 2wd.

the upcountry springs have like another 300lbs of capacity I think. So they'd solve that issue for you. Not sure I'd do anything aftermarket on the front. It's real nice to be able to walk into a parts store anywhere in the country and get replacement parts when it's busted and you're far from home. Many times a parts store parking lot has been my garage.

First, welcome aboard! Second, introduce yourself in the Colorado Chapter: http://naxja.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95

There are lot of guys who may be local to you, who have built XJs from mild to wild. Link your thread in your intro, include your municipality in your profile.

Hypoid said:

First, welcome aboard! Second, introduce yourself in the Colorado Chapter: http://naxja.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95

There are lot of guys who may be local to you, who have built XJs from mild to wild. Link your thread in your intro, include your municipality in your profile.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Funny you mention that as I am from Denver.

WB9YZU said:

Save the bucks, and the headache and leave it mostly stock.
A 1~2" lift as Nate suggested, or an OME lift will fit the bill (http://www.quadratec.com/products/76090_800.htm)

Though you are only going to use it on roads it seems, you could add a set of rock sliders incase you do get a wild hare. I have seen more banged up rockers an doors than I care to think of because someone decided that all you needed to go "Off-Road" was lift and tires.

As far as preventing sagging for all that camping equipment and all, you may want to consider air shocks in the rear. I know, it's all kinds of 70's way to jack up the back of your El Camino

-Ron

Click to expand...

Awesome man, thanks for the info. I wouldn't label the places I like to camp as just roads. I have been in some pretty sketchy situations (sketchy being relative I suppose) but I don't plan on just cruising grated dirt roads. It will be 4 wheeled to it's limit. hahaha and thank you for that sweet el camino image.

Ok, so I think I am going to order the crown automotive leaf springs. They are cheaper on amazon. Or I guess they are called HD Leaf spring also. http://www.amazon.com/Crown-Automotive-4886186AA-Spring-Assembly/dp/B009X1YAZS#productDetails
Would these be all the bushing I need for the leafs?http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kit....aspx?t_c=1&t_s=20&t_pt=4496&t_pn=CROJ5355369
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kit....aspx?t_c=1&t_s=20&t_pt=4496&t_pn=CRO52000504

Should I still remove the rear sway bar? I've heard they are pretty much useless.

A reviewer on there said that these coils were a good compliment
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C53ZSC/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk
In his review of the coils he stated that the moogs are listed to give 1 inch of lift. Would I still need spacers with these?

I think I would like to replace my tie rod set up. I went to rockzone and chose Jeep - 1996 - Grand Cherokee V8. This one is better that the XJ one and will fit ok?https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1182192,parttype,7425

Are these the Control Arms you'd recommend then? DORMAN Part # 520368 https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1381407,parttype,10401

I wish I could re-title this thread to UpCountry project.

Chuck a lunchbox locker in the front axle and it will be transparent when you're in 2wd.

Click to expand...

what do you mean transparent? Quiet?

Alright 87manche, I don't wanna wear out my welcome and I know we just met, but for some reason I trust ya. As pansy or pathetic as this may sound.....

If you have any extra time, would you be willing to straight up send me a link for the LCA you would buy? And also a link for the entire track bar set up you'd recommend.
I'm just getting confused and I need to place an order asap. As I said earlier I'm having some mechanic friends over soon and I'm also taking a trip to lake city Colorado early in July and I would like to get some of this stuff on.

cmahaff said:

I think I would like to replace my tie rod set up. I went to rockzone and chose Jeep - 1996 - Grand Cherokee V8. This one is better that the XJ one and will fit ok?https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1182192,parttype,7425

Click to expand...

I meant track bar