nightmare time (RMS)

OK folks, after doing some searching in here & other sites. I have come to the conclusion that doing a rear main seal is a bit out of my range with the tools i have on hand.
our XJ is a 93 model 4.0 HO 2 wheel drive.
got the oil pan out with out much issue (jacked the XJ up by the frame letting the front axle stay as low as possible). left the oil pump attatched. got the bottom part of the RMS out no problem.
the top half of the seal seams to be almost welded into place!
using a screwdriver (what i have on hand!) i tried to PUSH it through. no luck, just made a shiney dot where the screwdriver was.
tried to tap it out using a hammer and same screwdriver, it chipped away, but otherwise did not budge. loosened the crank bolts, no movement.
i'm working on gravel driveway because there's no garage here :gonnablow,
wich also means there's no light to work by after dark (need a new bulb for the drop light. it takes a flashlight bulb). with just a small (travel size) jack and doing this myself (no extra hands here) i don't dare drop the tranny. and no way to lift the engine.
I'm finding myself STUCK LIKE CHUCK right now. what is listed as a 3 1/2 hour job is taking me over 2 days and still needs finished.
i know that i cannot put it back together the way it is, with a chunk of seal missing on the top. it would only cause more headaches down the road for me.
What kind of advice can any of you more experienced RMS replacers give me?
we just got it and need it on the road it's our only vehicle!

thanks in advance for any and all help, suggestion and advice!

I feel for you, it's a pain to do in a clean, well lighted garage. Love the dripping oil the best.
First, never use anything made of steel to push the seal, scratch the journal and it's screwed. I use a narrow brass round punch.
A piece of brazing rod, aluminum rod or hardwood doweling can be used, smack it good!
Do you have access to a torque wrench to set the main cap's torque? If so, you can loosen all of the main caps a few turns, dropping the crank down for a bit more room and less pressure on the seal.
You need to be able pry the leading edges loose and work it around. Notice which way the seal's lips face
If you do get it out, soak the new seal in engine oil before installing. Having crank loose will allow the seal to go in more easily

Lazyxj , Main caps are loose. Crank refuses to drop at all.
All i have to work with is steel tools. Nothing brass or wooden.
If i could load the pics or my short video from my phone into here i would. Really need another hand here to help me. Im at my wits end. And nobody here can help. (nothing against women jeepers , but my honey ain't getting under it).

Not to sound TOO much like a d**k, you need to get the right tool, whether it's just a dowel, plastic or a brass punch. You wouldn't want your dentist using a screwdriver on your root canal. You really don't want to fruck up your crankshaft or break off a corner of the block. The only other tool you need is patience. Keep tapping.

x2 on what others have said. if you can get to a hardware store, or such get yourself a small brass rod. use it to keep tapping on that seal. while your at it, might not be a bad idea to grab an extra seal while your at it, just in case. Soak them in oil and they like to go in slow. take some time, and be patient. the less you fight it the easier it will be.

cracked-butt said:

Lazyxj , Main caps are loose. Crank refuses to drop at all.
Really need another hand here to help me. I'm at my wits end. And nobody here can help.

Click to expand...

The piston are keeping the crank from dropping. You need to pry the crank down a bit, pulling the pistons down with it, to get the needed room.
Wish I could give you hand but Tennessee is a long drive from here.

what he said, also maybe spray some brakleen up in the seal area to try to soften it a little bit. Might help to have a helper pry while you try to tap the old seal out.

Use the correct punch. Something softer than the crank as others have said. Then the key is to punch the wire inside the seal inside the seal, not the rubber part. You can usually see a small circle on the seal where you want to hit it.

I hope you have a torque wrench to toque the main bolts back up.

Wally-world and parts stores don't carry brass punches.
So i picked up a regular steel set. Just have to be extra careful is all (i hope!)
I have crow bars but nervous of using it to pull the crank down (don't wanna mess it up!).
Lol patience, that's a good one. It ran screaming from me before i was ten!

Rather than use the steel punches, how about going to your local building supply, get some hardwood (oak?) dowels in a "punch" and "handle" size, cut to a usable length, drill the "hande" dowel an inch or so deep to the diameter of the "punch" dowel, insert, glue, et voila, non-marring punch.

Pretty sure Harbor Freight sells cheap brass drifts if you have one nearby. Brass is soft so if it's too big buy two and modify one to work.

I'm surprised that parts stores don't have brass drifts, but I still have one that I bought 20 years ago or so, had to dress the end a few times but other than that it's still good.

Your local hardware store, or the big box stores like Home Depot and Lowes, should have pieces of brass rod 12" long. You'll find them in the same racks that have steel rod, angle iron and that type of stuff. An aluminum rod would work too.

Or, as others have said, even a piece of wood dowel would work, although with that you might want to go with a 3' piece and cut off sections since you will end up tearing up the ends really quickly.

Being on the phone right now i cent post pics. Bug i just loaded dome onto my fb page . I know none of ya have me over there. So the name is Vince Dunn . My pic is an eagle and 2nd amendment.

ok inside to post these on the computer from fb... here goes...
top black spot (RMS) IS PASSENGER SIDE


passenger side closer look... no visual of rod in it.


got the crank bolts practically off, crank is good and tight...


i get that what y'all are saying, but money is now short and patience is gone.

Dropping tranny n crank tomorrow.
May seem a but drastic, but Im done , fried. What ever it takes to get this done and back on the road.
Just know that its gonna be my last RMS for a while! Lol
Got somebody coming to help get tranny down n back in (only have a small jack, won't vo high enough).

lazyxj said:

The piston are keeping the crank from dropping. You need to pry the crank down a bit, pulling the pistons down with it, to get the needed room.
Wish I could give you hand but Tennessee is a long drive from here.

Click to expand...

x2 you really have to pry down and you will see crank come down. This will give you enough space, no need to get involved in removing transmission!

Patrick
93 Cherokee

I've done a bunch of rear main seals and never had to loosen the crank. I use a piece of brazing rod (brass alloy) maybe four inches long and a BFH. I buy the stuff by the yard.

It will come out of there, the brass curves as you drive it in and forces the seal out, when enough of the seal is poking out, grab it with a pare of pliers and pull.

I grant you a couple of times I kind of held my breath as it seemed it wasn't going to work, but it always eventually did.

I often thought after bending the first couple of pieces of brass brazing rod (it may take a few pieces) I would try to drill down through the center of a piece of dowel, the same diameter as the rod and use that as a brace to increase the strength of the rod. Never needed to. I have few talents, but am pretty good with a hammer and most times managed to get the rod placed correctly and a straight good solid swing with the hammer.

if the rod gets jammed, use a pair of vise locks and a small hammer, tap, tap, tap to get it back out.

Got a friends friend coming over to help. He started loosening the crank bolts from the prisons.
Just hope i don't have to mess with my timing to do it. With or without removing the tranny.home decor/lowest is in another town. This place (town Im in) sucks monkey butts!

Every time I have dome a RMS I have not had to mess with the other main caps. The hard part is getting the initial movement on the old RMS.

As for dropping the crank, you could unbolt the torque converter and push it back into the bell hosing. That will get you a but of movement from the crank. Right now I think that may be holding you up. The timing set won't be an issue as there is enough flex in the chain to allow the small amount of pivot necessary. The harmonic balance hitting the front seal could be an issue though.

Make sure the main caps aren't too lose as you don't want to drop the crank too much and pull the pistons out the bottom.

maybe too late, but what i did when i couldn't get my hands on a brass punch is wrap the correct sized steel one with black electrical tape to keep from scratching anything. it worked great.

Talyn said:

As for dropping the crank, you could unbolt the torque converter and push it back into the bell hosing. That will get you a but of movement from the crank. Right now I think that may be holding you up.

Click to expand...

This^. I read the whole thread and was wondering why no one suggested this until now. "Now there's your problem!" Lol. Crank isn't going anywhere still bolted to the torque converter. If it's a manual trans, you can have someone push on the clutch pedal and that will give you a small amount of crank drop. Don't forget to have someone push the pedal when tightening the main bearing bolts.

Also, you wrote " He started loosening the crank bolts from the prisons." Did you mean "pistons"? If so, that means that he loosened the rod cap bolts. No need for that.

Good luck with your RMS.

Warlock1 said:

Also, you wrote " He started loosening the crank bolts from the prisons." Did you mean "pistons"? If so, that means that he loosened the rod cap bolts. No need for that.

Click to expand...

I thought it was a work release program-- yeah, no need to loosen the rod caps.