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Found synthetic winch line for less

Y

yossarian19

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Grass Valley, CA
I was screwing around, comparing climbing rope to wire rope to synthetic winch line breaking strengths. Came across the word "dyneema", which is the material that makes synthetic winch line so stupid-strong. I'm used to seeing the stuff used in outdoors equipment. So I searched "dyneema rope" and came up with West Marine -
West Marine sells Dyneema ropes by the foot quite a bit cheaper than the 4x4 specialist outfits do, like, $50 cheaper. So if you are willing to tie a knot in the end, this is a good way to save a buck. Just thought I'd share.

If you wanted to nerd out, like I usually do, you could re-spool a comealong with a smaller diameter but same-strength line & get more pull out of it.
Badass shoe laces.
Etc.
 
Somehow, I'd never learned that. I'm now going to have to dust off the Ashley Book of Knots and teach myself something.
 
Rope is more complex than you think, especially if you didn't know knots reduce a ropes maximum working load rating.

I would do some serious testing before advising others to winch a vehicle on boat rope.

Maybe it's because my life depends on ropes, but recovery ropes are not something to skimp on....
 
Some of the marine grade ropes are much better then anything in the 4x4 market. Better UV protection, better abbrasive resistance, some have higher weight ratings, etc. One of the guys in the NAC is big into sailing and knows a ton about them and is very well versed in winching stuff.
 
xcm said:
Rope is more complex than you think, especially if you didn't know knots reduce a ropes maximum working load rating.

I would do some serious testing before advising others to winch a vehicle on boat rope.

Maybe it's because my life depends on ropes, but recovery ropes are not something to skimp on....
Click to expand...

As a climber, I consider myself fairly well informed on rope. My life, too, frequently depends on ropes... It does seem an oversight that I didn't know knots decreased strength - I'm familiar with the relative strengths of climbing and sailing knots, and which ones are appropriate where, but thought the strength was the point at which they'd somehow come untied. Anyhow -
Masterpull rates their 3/8" Dyneema SK75 (used in climbing gear and high end rope) winch line at 17,600 lbs. 3/8 Wire Rope is, generally, rated at 12,200 lbs. West Marine sells Amsteel Blue dyneema rope, breaking strength 19,600, and sells it cheaper than Masterpull.
Now, I can't say exactly what else Masterpull may have done to their winch lines - but it sure looks like every other Dyneema rope that I've seen, but with a thimbled splice in the end & a hook on it.
So, readers take it as they will - I think I'll be spooling a comealong with amsteel rope and if I was buying a winch, I'd personally do the same.
 
Looking to outfit my Warn xd9000i with amsteel (Master Pull from the link above). Standard wire rope for this winch is 125' of 5/16". Should I consider moving to 3/8' rated at 17k+ or stick with the 5/16" synthetic rated 12k+?
If I move to 3/8" can you tell me how much less the winch might hold? Maybe 100'?

Thanks
 
If it was me, I'd consider 1/4" Amsteel and get some more length out of it OR I'd stay 5/16 and pick up the strength. Going 3/8 and having 17K of strength in the line is cool, I guess, but your winch is only rated to 9K on the first wrap. So 17K is overkill - and taking up extra space.
The math to see how much 3/8 you could spool is beyond me. Take a few measurements and check out this link, though.
 
having seen a fair amount of snapped winchlines, I would say the stronger the better.

carry a strap to extend it if you need.

when was the last time you really needed to winch all 125'?
 
yossarian19 said:
If it was me, I'd consider 1/4" Amsteel and get some more length out of it OR I'd stay 5/16 and pick up the strength. Going 3/8 and having 17K of strength in the line is cool, I guess, but your winch is only rated to 9K on the first wrap. So 17K is overkill - and taking up extra space.
The math to see how much 3/8 you could spool is beyond me. Take a few measurements and check out this link, though.
Click to expand...

1/4" rope should not go on a 9k winch. 5/16" at the smallest.

From what I've read, if you are going with a durable rope like the masterpull superline or XD, get the 5/16" so you can fit a bit more on the spool. If not, 3/8" rope gives you a good safety factor as the rope might start to wear or fray over time. Rub your $300 5/16" rope on a rock one time and you might have weakened it to the strength of a 1/4" rope. What happens if you rub a 1/4" line?

I'd recommend running around 80' of 3/8" line and if you really need more, carry a 5/16" 50' extension. The extension line will be fine at a smaller diameter because it won't be in the sun and elements all the time.
 
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yossarian19 said:
If it was me, I'd consider 1/4" Amsteel and get some more length out of it OR I'd stay 5/16 and pick up the strength. Going 3/8 and having 17K of strength in the line is cool, I guess, but your winch is only rated to 9K on the first wrap. So 17K is overkill - and taking up extra space.
The math to see how much 3/8 you could spool is beyond me. Take a few measurements and check out this link, though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, 1/4 line seemed like a good idea yesterday but I wouldn't do it (or repeat the point in the future, either)

1/4 Amsteel is about 1000 lbs weaker than 5/16" Galvanized aircraft cable. Depending what's on the winch now, you're probably losing strength if you put 1/4 on it and you probably won't need the length.
 
rockclimber said:
when was the last time you really needed to winch all 125'?
Click to expand...

Consider that ideally you should extend the winch line out as far as possible to maximize the pulling power and reduce winch temp and electrical draw. Also, using a snatch block when possible is a good idea, for the same reasons and, to a lesser degree with synthetic rope over steel, minimize the chances of the cable snapping directly back at either rig. Often times a snatch block is needed to optimize the angle of the pull - it's not always a straight pull. An off-camber, slide off the trail/road often requires a sideways pull. Of course all this depends on what's available to connect the block to.
So, a 100' line quickly becomes 50 - 60' with a snatch block.
Having said all this (brainstorming on the keyboard) I will probably go with 100' of 3/8" from Custom Splice and grab a 50' extension as well as a tree saver. 9000# winch with snatch block (18,000#) exceeds the rating of 5/16" AmSteel Blue (13,700#).
 
Last edited:
EDIT: nevermind, I was muddying waters.
A single snatch block attached to the load being moved *does* offer mechanical advantage. A pulley anchored elsewhere is only good for a change of direction.
 
Last edited:
yossarian19 said:
EDIT: nevermind, I was muddying waters.
A single snatch block attached to the load being moved *does* offer mechanical advantage. A pulley anchored elsewhere is only good for a change of direction.
Click to expand...

Glad you straightened that one out. I wasn't about to go back 50 years to 8th grade geometry, physics or math to figure it out. :eyes:
 
NOTNSUV said:
Consider that ideally you should extend the winch line out as far as possible to maximize the pulling power and reduce winch temp and electrical draw.
Click to expand...


Seems like a good reason to have a short rope on the winch, and an extension in your recovery bag?
 
It cuts both ways (short for power but long for reach) but the extension is always a good idea.
 
NOTNSUV said:
Consider that ideally you should extend the winch line out as far as possible to maximize the pulling power and reduce winch temp and electrical draw. Also, using a snatch block when possible is a good idea, for the same reasons and, to a lesser degree with synthetic rope over steel, minimize the chances of the cable snapping directly back at either rig. Often times a snatch block is needed to optimize the angle of the pull - it's not always a straight pull. An off-camber, slide off the trail/road often requires a sideways pull. Of course all this depends on what's available to connect the block to.
So, a 100' line quickly becomes 50 - 60' with a snatch block.
Having said all this (brainstorming on the keyboard) I will probably go with 100' of 3/8" from Custom Splice and grab a 50' extension as well as a tree saver. 9000# winch with snatch block (18,000#) exceeds the rating of 5/16" AmSteel Blue (13,700#).
Click to expand...

I have almost never been in a winching situation where a snatch block was necessary, nor even feasable to properly direct the line.

IMO, you are not seeing the forest through the trees. I would much rather have a stronger, shorter line than a weaker longer one. (within reason of course)
 
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