Dodge Dana 44 knuckle on HP30

I've seen a couple of casual mentions about putting a Dodge Dana 44 knuckle, stub, bearing & brakes onto a Dana 30. 98 Ram 1500 4x4 was the application, though the same casual mention says that Chevy 6 lug parts would fit (just to get a 3rd make into the axle)
Anyone know more about this?
From rockauto, it looks like the 98 Dodge rotor is 11.6" (splitting difference between WJ and XJ size) and caliper is 2.94" bore, compared to 2.6" XJ. Brakes should be notably better but not WJ or Vanco good.
5x5.50 lug pattern.
Im not sure what if anything has to be done with the ball joints. I don't see this as an obviously desirable swap, seems to be the same work / expense as WJ stuff for less gain, just interesting to me. I guess if you really want 5 on 5.5 or 6 on 5.5 on a Dana 30...?
Anyway. Anyone here know more about the swap?

seems (to me) a waste of time to go through the work of putting an undesirable knuckle on a relatively small axle for minimal gains. especially if your still stuck with a unit bearing. i wouldnt worry too much about the D30 from the BJs out. according to cal it is a better design than traditional D44 knuckles... the pettycash rig runs a D44 with D30 Cs and WJ brakes and warn locking hubs (if i recall correctly).

personally... if you want better brakes, locking hubs and 5on5.5 (at a fraction of the WJ stuff) and have access to a mill...
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1062525

EDIT:
just noticed youve seen that thread... and you seem to have a lot of interest in better brakes. what exactly is it about your current brakes that you dont like?

Honestly... It's a hobby. I get bored, I research and tinker. I can lock my tires on my current junk. I'd love to build half the setups floating around my head but haven't got the cash. A lot of my enjoyment comes from the problem solving and research though, so, I'm always thinking about what could be done, how and why.
Really, on my rig, I'll either build my own bracket for crown Victoria stuff or maybe, someday, finish a wj swap. Till then, I'm nerding out.
So who's done a 44 knuckle?

I think that was me that said that. It was based on info I found on another site (forget which) that was written by someone whose posts read like they barfed up a boggle game. I'm not entirely sure as to the veracity of the info... I did take some balljoint taper measurements and such in the junkyard at the time, but no idea where that info went.

I would recommend going to the junkyard and test fitting. Pull a knuckle off a dodge and another off a jeep, try swapping the dodge onto the jeep and see what happens. Pay very close attention to balljoint engagement, both must obviously fit the knuckle height/spacing wise, and I would recommend pulling the balljoints out and inserting individually into the knuckle to check taper fit. If the top or the bottom of the taper doesn't match the hole perfectly, it may feel like it bolted up securely but will eventually wallow out and is an extremely dangerous thing to have on your vehicle, since it could easily cause severe deathwobble in the process and likely bend/work harden/break the balljoint stud.

The Chevy crap was because we were trying to put together a hybrid axle for a friend of mine with a toyota and wanted to match the 6 lug pattern. The person who posted the rest of the info also posted that that would work. There was definitely some work to be done to make them bolt up (they appeared to fit the knuckle, but the dodge bearing bolts on through the back of the knuckle and the chevy through the front, so it was a matter of getting proper size/hardness fasteners and through-bolting it) but it appeared at first glance to roughly fit up.

My buddy with the toyota who wanted to put this all together ended up buying an actual Toyota solid front axle for his project, so we dropped the entire idea.

On ball joints, information can be found on the interweb that gives the critical dimensions such as the taper angle, diameter, thread pitch and such stuff.

IMO, checking the web first on the ball joints can, perhaps, save some frustrating time in the yards.

Oh really? I couldn't find a decent reference for that material, and all the auto parts websites just listed them by application.

Couldn't find ball joint tapers but the steering arms on the Dodge are definitely the wrong taper for XJ stuff. May be the same angle (too lazy to do the math) but wrong dimensions - so it isn't going to be as simple as bolting it all up & dropping your stock steering in place. You'd have to go heims or use Moog 3203L // Moog 3342R. Both use the 22mm shank, so would swap in place on a ZJ steering setup.

VAhasnoWAVES said:

seems (to me) a waste of time to go through the work of putting an undesirable knuckle on a relatively small axle for minimal gains. especially if your still stuck with a unit bearing. i wouldnt worry too much about the D30 from the BJs out. according to cal it is a better design than traditional D44 knuckles... the pettycash rig runs a D44 with D30 Cs and WJ brakes and warn locking hubs (if i recall correctly).

personally... if you want better brakes, locking hubs and 5on5.5 (at a fraction of the WJ stuff) and have access to a mill...
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1062525

EDIT:
just noticed youve seen that thread... and you seem to have a lot of interest in better brakes. what exactly is it about your current brakes that you dont like?

Click to expand...

the weakest part of the D30 outer is the upper balljoint hole on the innerC.

30 seconds on the web...

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/Universal_Outer_Tie_Rod_Ends.asp

http://www.truckcomponentsonline.com/TIE-ROD-ENDS.HTML

rockclimber said:

the weakest part of the D30 outer is the upper balljoint hole on the innerC.

Click to expand...

Where exactly did you get this info from? Because I have never seen one tear out or wallow out and have only seen the inner C bend inward at the top from too much force (usually jumping/landing or high speed related), which is under compression and not related to the balljoint hole.

Even on vehicles at the junkyard that were involved in severe front end collisions I have never seen the upper balljoint tear out of the inner C. I did see one with a separated lower balljoint however.

edit: OGS, that's awesome and I need to bookmark it. You find one for balljoints as well or should I go hunting? I guess I was looking in the wrong places.

edit2: they have a page for upper balljoints and another for lower balljoints but they are in a tree view setup instead of a large table, it looks very possible to automatically process it into that form using a script however. I'll have to look into that later.

Where's the ball joint page? couldn't find it from either link...

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/Moog-Front-Upper-Ball-Joints.asp

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/Moog-Front-Lower-Ball-Joints.asp

I guess one could simply look up the balljoints for an XJ frontend and compare them to the balljoints from a dodge 1500 4x4 frontend. If the tapers match, the only thing that needs to be checked is balljoint to balljoint spacing.

... Still don't see any taper info on the moog site. I might be missing the obvious, though..

kastein said:

Where exactly did you get this info from? Because I have never seen one tear out or wallow out and have only seen the inner C bend inward at the top from too much force (usually jumping/landing or high speed related), which is under compression and not related to the balljoint hole.

Even on vehicles at the junkyard that were involved in severe front end collisions I have never seen the upper balljoint tear out of the inner C. I did see one with a separated lower balljoint however.

Click to expand...

there is not enough material around the upper balljoint to stand up to abuse.

I have seen several bad u-joint breaks lead to that hole wallowing out. because the upper balljoint is pressed in from the top, when the u-joint/shaft years fail, and you are either bouncing or on the throttle heavy, the ears misalign and half the time the shaft tries to pull that balljoint sideways and it tears the hole.

saw one break a few months ago that tore both holes (upper and lower) open.

the vertical part of the inner C, which bends as you have said, is much stronger, not the strongest, but can be gusseted easily.