Self adjusters...

So my brakes got all crappy a little while back... weekend before last I got to replace them in the snow, happy happy joy joy. Went over to my friend's shop today to get some lift time, got my transfer case skid fixed (had to grind off all three bolt heads and insert new nutserts, my back is killing me now) and figured I would recheck rear brakes as I imagined I could feel them getting a little softer as they wore in... well everything looked fine but the drum that I pulled slipped right off. Put my finger on the self adjuster cable, watched the little lever move the star wheel, hmm. Let go, and watched the star wheel move right back to where it was before. (Expletive deleted)!

Is there any special trick to making these actually *work* or should I just resign myself to adjusting them at every oil change like some antique POS?

do you have the drum adjusters on the wrong sides? Is everything greased well? Is the brake cable binding anywhere(like melt onto the muffler??) or perhaps some adjustment in the cable where it meets the lever

No, yes (well anti seize most places, brake grease on the shoe pads) no adjustment that I could see... I'm talking about the self adjuster cable, not the e-brake cable. Problem is the self adjuster lever is not ratcheting on the star wheel, it's just turning it back and forth. Or in other words, after I adjust the brakes the lever remains engaged on the exact same tooth on the star wheel no matter what, unless I adjust it again with the spoon.

IIRC, there is a little spring, like a light leaf spring, that should hold the adjuster wheel in place. Yours could be bent out of the way or broken off.

Being as you live in the east, I would for sure just keep adjusting them.

Are they losing adjustment because the star wheels move because the metal spring isn't touching as winterbeater mentioned?

I'm not sure what spring you mean... I have the 9" drums and did not see any spring that would contact the star wheel. The spring that connects the shoes above the star wheel does not touch it. Now that you mention it, the old Studebakers that I've worked on with the old manual adjust drums did use that spring to hold the star wheel from rotating. I got my springs from NAPA but the springs that were on there before seemed to be the same way. Is this possibly an example of a poor aftermarket part design, or are you referring to another spring? If it helps I can pull a drum later and try to snap some pics.

I had a different image in my mind. Never mind, no leaf spring. Probably thinking about my old manually adjusting VW Beetles. Is your lever contacting the adjuster wheel too high up? Sometimes the cables are the wrong length.

Is that lower spring rubbing on the teeth of your star wheel? That may be my problem. That's how I remember my old manual brake Studes working, and if there were something to hold a little tension on the star wheel adjustment, that would apparently make it work correctly. The NAPA replacement spring is smaller diameter than the one I took out and does not touch the star wheel at all. I neglected to notice if the old rusty spring touched the star wheel though. I think I still have most of the old crappy parts, I will have to see if I have both of those springs and try them. I reused my original star wheels and levers but I had to replace cables & saddles.

Yes, the horizontal spring should touch the teeth of the star wheel.

Disc brake swap?

OK, I was feeling rather bad today (my back is still killing me for some reason and I've been gobbling generic Aleve-like substances like Skittles) but after seeing the last few posts I went outside and ripped one of the drums off.

Unfortunately I've apparently lost one of the original springs... I tried to save all the old hardware just in case but when I did this brake job I didn't have the luxury of choosing the time/place... it was in the mid-20s and snowing; it would have been about a 50 mile drive to my friend's shop and the brakes were bad enough that I didn't really feel safe trying to limp it there.

I did find one of them... it is different from the new NAPA spring, but *neither* one touches the star wheel. What to do? Order the springs from the dealer and see what happens?

http://s1058.photobucket.com/user/thatguyN8/library/XJ rear brakes?sort=3&page=1

I don't know if the springs were replaced before or not - the vehicle was bought by my cousin's ex-husband from a government auction, so I don't have any history prior to their ownership of it. It only has 90K miles, but that's no assurance that the brakes hadn't been done before. It didn't have any push nuts on the wheel studs when I got it.

Rear disc swap is not in the cards right now...

BTW, another product that I'm somewhat disappointed in is Dupli-Color caliper paint. I painted my new drums and even baked them in the oven at 200 degrees before installing, after a week and a half they're noticeably rushttp://s1058.photobucket.com/user/thatguyN8/library/XJ%20rear%20brakes?sort=3&page=1ted right through the paint, mostly on the outside of the braking surface. Grr.

I would pick up a rear brake hardware kit from carquest/napa/advance, etc. That one looks like the one in my carquest kit that I got when I did the rear brakes on my 8.25

That's the problem, these are all new parts from NAPA! Shoes, hardware kit, self adjuster kit, shoes, and drums. Only original parts I reused were the star wheels and levers because the new parts didn't look like they had enough engagement to work properly when I mocked everything up.

When I look at your pics, I wonder if the lever is too far down on the star wheel. If you look at the pic I posted, the lever is higher up on the wheel. The little 1/4 round cable guide is seated in the shoe all the way? Or maybe the cable is just too long. They had two different rear brake diameters in 2000. Dont know about '99. Over the years, on Chrysler products, I've had to custom fit some replacement pieces to drum brakes.

The lever should just be pushing the wheel a little bit and slid down. It needs to be closer to the side of the star wheel than the bottom. I can see that if it was too close to the bottom, it might go back and forth. You might need to shorten the cable (pita), or try to go thru cables at a parts store.

Cable guide is seated properly. Wondering now if I should reinstall old parts even though they are rusty and shitty looking.

At least put the new and old parts side by side, see if there is any difference.

I'd clean up the old parts the best I could and re-install. Chrysler made a lot of small changes along the way to make things work short term. All parts from any given year might not interchange freely without rework. That's why I don't use those kits unless something is broken or missing. Unfortunately, the holes in the brake shoes could even vary in position. Might be custom fit to make it all work right.

Only found one of the old cables... position of lever with old cable and guide installed does not look much different from previous photo. Still having the same issue; nothing holds the star wheel in place and lets it ratchet on the adjuster lever. So when I pull the cable to raise the lever, the star wheel turns a little, and then goes right back to its previous position.



This is the pass side rear brake; it was the driver's side that I pulled at the shop, so I'm having an identical problem on both sides.

I'm starting to think that it HAS to be that spring and I should just suck it up and order it from the dealer, but I'm not 100% confident, and it'll be a week before I can get them because they have to order them.

the_weirdo said:

Yes, the horizontal spring should touch the teeth of the star wheel.

Click to expand...

no that's wrong
The only thing that should touch the star wheel is the adjuster, on a self adjusting system.

When the gap between the shoe and the drum gets large enough from wear, the adjuster will drop below the centerline of the star and when released, will draw star wheel a notch or so.

If the wheel rotates back, it's because there isn't enough wear to accommodate any adjustment.

Everything in the last pic is correctly assembled. When the brake show wears enough, it will (should) adjust. They are not a perfect design for sure and many do not adjust correctly on their own, especially if the hardware kits are mis-matched and/or rusty.

If anything, it looks as though the adjusting cable has stretched and needs replaced. the adjuster shoe should sit a little higher.