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inverted T steering tie rod roll

89eliminator

89eliminator

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Delphi, IN
so i have this...
IMG_2289.jpg


with this...
http://www.jcroffroad.com/mm5/merch...een=PROD&Category_Code=S6&Product_Code=PLYBSH

i know they are cheap and i could just stock up on them but im sick of replacing them. they last about 3-5 months depending on how much wheeling/driving i do. i know im not the only one with this problem, so whats a better fix then poly spacers? im not changing the steering or switching to high steer knuckles.
 
89eliminator said:
even when the roll occurs on the pass side?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's rolling because you have TRE's on both sides.

Because the whole tie rod is basically one rigid mechanism; running a heim on one side- severely limiting the roll, would in turn affect the other side.
 
putting a heim on one side won't fix it. it will limit the dead spot a bit, because the heim wont move as much as the TRE... but you will destroy the heim eventually and be replacing those too..
 
rockclimber said:
putting a heim on one side won't fix it. it will limit the dead spot a bit, because the heim wont move as much as the TRE... but you will destroy the heim eventually and be replacing those too..
Click to expand...

My heim moves maybe 2 degrees. I've had a hard time destroying a 7/8 heim, and I have a hard time believing the metal case of the heim hitting the metal knuckle is going to wear out a heim that move a coont hair.

I'm no expert but I think a 7/8 heim is a lot stronger than a chunk of poly. Just sayin....
 
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have a machine shop copy the design and make them out of some steel?
 
chettacheez said:
My heim moves maybe 2 degrees. I've had a hard time destroying a 7/8 heim, and I have a hard time believing the metal case of the heim hitting the metal knuckle is going to wear out a heim that move a coont hair.

I'm no expert but I think a 7/8 heim is a lot stronger than a chunk of poly. Just sayin....
Click to expand...

its not the metal of the heim... its the race, that you will destroy.

and your heim moves a lot more than 2 degrees. unless you are bolted directly to the knuckle and not using safety washers... which is also a bad idea because of the soft material that is the knuckle, the heims will sink in and loosen the bolts

vt98xj said:
have a machine shop copy the design and make them out of some steel?
Click to expand...

no. because of SAI you need some misalignment in the joints. if you make these out of metal you are just going to destroy the TREs
 
im no engineer... the tie rod is a "one rigid mechanism" as described. but i think the reason you would experience a lessened dead spot from running one heim on the drivers side is that the roll axis of a heim is likely different than that of a TRE, so they are essentially fighting each other... whether it be heim, TRE, or polly spacer, your going to be replacing SOMETHING.

my limited web wheeling has told me that the best fix is a lessened drag link angle. a steep drag link directs all of the steering input down, causing the tie rod to roll. a more horizontal angle directs the input laterally. a dead spot is just an inherent problem with the inverted T.
 
rockclimber said:
no. because of SAI you need some misalignment in the joints. if you make these out of metal you are just going to destroy the TREs
Click to expand...

You only need a very limited amount of rotation on the tierod to not stress the joints on the draglink when you are full lock or neutral postion. It really depends on the axle position in relation to the end of the pitman arm.
 
rockclimber said:
its not the metal of the heim... its the race, that you will destroy.

and your heim moves a lot more than 2 degrees. unless you are bolted directly to the knuckle and not using safety washers... which is also a bad idea because of the soft material that is the knuckle, the heims will sink in and loosen the bolts
Click to expand...

Man, ever hear of hardened washers? There's more out there than misalignment spacers and safety washers. And since we're on the subject, I'm pretty sure I would trust the cast knuckle more than some of these stainless misalignment spacers on the market but that's another story...

Still not following your logic on how it will destroy races. Must be a west coast thing because running the same setup for 3 years in the rust belt and no destroyed races or loose bolts.
 
vt98xj said:
You only need a very limited amount of rotation on the tierod to not stress the joints on the draglink when you are full lock or neutral postion. It really depends on the axle position in relation to the end of the pitman arm.
Click to expand...

SAI has nothing to do with axle position or the drag link :doh:

chettacheez said:
And since we're on the subject, I'm pretty sure I would trust the cast knuckle more than some of these stainless misalignment spacers on the market but that's another story...
Click to expand...
you would be wrong.

Still not following your logic on how it will destroy races. Must be a west coast thing because running the same setup for 3 years in the rust belt and no destroyed races or loose bolts.
Click to expand...
the load of the tie-rod rolling the rod end back and forth fully can wear the races out much quicker than they should.

happened to me.

not as quick as a poly spacer though.
 
rockclimber said:
SAI has nothing to do with axle position or the drag link :doh:
Click to expand...

if I push my front axle +5" forward or backwards (example) I will not need to change the location of my steering box? if you didn't move the steering box you would bind all the tie rod ends in the system...
 
Last edited:
vt98xj said:
if I push my front axle +5" forward or backwards (example) I will not need to change the location of my steering box? if you didn't move the steering box you would bind all the tie rod ends in the system...
Click to expand...

clearly you don't know what SAI is.

go do some searching and report back with why you are missing the point.
 
vt98xj said:
if I push my front axle +5" forward or backwards (example) I will not need to change the location of my steering box? if you didn't move the steering box you would bind all the tie rod ends in the system...
Click to expand...
I moved my front axle forward 4" and still use factory box and pitman arm in stock location. No TRE binding up yet.
SAI, (Do or Die), is non adjustable. So I'm led to think Wade your just going to have to just maintain your rig. There was a big debate on this subject matter a while back. Have to see if can't find the thread.
 
i guess i will stock up on them. they work when the are new, they just wear out quick.

not sure i want to go the heim route. brennen, dont you run a different steering configuration?
 
I am in the same boat as you wade with my steering. Mine isn't from jcr but it is the pretty much the same thing. Im gonna have to try those poly spacers to see if they will help tighten up my steering a little bit better. Its sad that the girlfriends jeep has factory steering on it and it handles 10 times better than mine.
 
Jeepguy91 said:
I am in the same boat as you wade with my steering. Mine isn't from jcr but it is the pretty much the same thing. Im gonna have to try those poly spacers to see if they will help tighten up my steering a little bit better. Its sad that the girlfriends jeep has factory steering on it and it handles 10 times better than mine.
Click to expand...

The spacers will tighten the steering and should make a good bit of difference..
 
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