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Next Batch of Mods - E-Fan(Need Suggestions), YJ AC bracket, HO Alternator

BulletMaker

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Cascades, WA
So I'm in the process of doing some upgrades, and need some input. I want to do an e-fan mod, as with the weather being as cold as it has been, it takes forever for everything to get up to temp. I figure just shutting the fans off until the engine gets up to temp will help a lot. Originally, I was going to do ehalls simple dual electric fan mod. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1016319

However, In order to do this, I'm going to need to re-route the belt, and remove the fan stud, as this will not fit with the existing fan stud. This means sawzalling off the stud, or removing/swapping the bracket. Ehall again was good enough to provide this writeup: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1016319

I can then put in the high output alternator. I am starting to doubt the fan mod, and thinking better of it, I can make my own fan cowling, and was thinking of using two smaller fans with a plastic backing plate. I have seen a few people talk about using 10" e-fans, anyone have any part numbers for this?
 
I did a bit of googling around and this was the best/cheapest fan I could find that looks like it would work.

http://www.amazon.com/PROCOMP-INCH-ELECTRIC-COOLER-RADIATOR/dp/B004LOIKVM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1

I also took a bunch of measurements, and the renix radiator core is roughly 31" across and about 12" from the tabs on the bottom to the screw holes on the top. I took a bunch of measurements and should solidworks something up for lasercutting.

While searching the site, I found this: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1086278

It looks like he's using the same fans, with a very similar setup to the one I would be making, however the listing there is for nearly 4000CFM, but I don't think I've seen a 10" fan that's rated at over 1000CFM, so perhaps the rating of fans is significantly under what they're actually capable of?

I forgot to mention earlier, I'm also adding dieselman's coolant filter mod. I meant to do a bunch of this tonight, but the lack of the YJ bracket, the painfully low temperature, meant that all I did was put in a new waterpump tonight. Never got around to installing the filter, rerouting the belt, or installing an e-fan.
 
18$ for an efan? You get what you pay for..
 
18$ for an efan? You get what you pay for..

I don't disagree, however the Dirtbound kit sells for $250, with three fans, wires, and a custom bracket. Doesn't leave a lot of room for profit if they're spending that much more. I also found these: http://www.amazon.com/DPT-DPT-RAF-10-RD-Electric-Radiator-Thickness/dp/B009G8DVQW/ref=pd_sbs_auto_17

Looks like the same exact fan DB is using, and at ~$19 fan, not sure I'm getting something that's that much better. I did check references, and the procomp fans are pretty common with hotrodders and street truck people. For that price, I may as well keep an extra fan when wheeling. (even then, I'm not a rock crawler guy)

The dirt-bound off-road electric fan setup looks to be a fairly complete drop-in solution, and a lot of people seem happy with it. If you are looking for a packaged solution.

Yea, it looks like a great package, but I'm a bit more DIY. The thing I didn't like about the DB fan kit is it doesn't just drop in, it looks like it requires removing the radiator cover part, which means pulling the top cowling for the grille. I want something that drops into the tabs on the bottom of the radiator, and mates up with the screws on the top like regular jeep electric fan/mechanical fan cowling does.

Even if I'm completely misinterpreting what I'm seeing on the DB fans, I'm resolved to do it myself. I am going to throw the blank in with my next laser cutting run, make it out of 14ga aluminum and brake it up. At that point, it should just mount to the tabs on the bottom, and then the screws on top.

Also, thanks for all the write-ups you did, they've been a great resource to helping me get around some of the problems I havn't quite figured out yet.
 
You need at LEAST 2500 CFM to cool a 4.0, and over 3000 would be better, especially for wheeling or driving slow in hot temps... this is a combined measurement between whatever fans you have on there... so the link you posted to the cheap pro-comp curved blade fan isn't going to cut it as a replacement for the mechanical fan, because the OEM fan pulls maybe 1200 on a good day.

Electric fans have their place, and I do run one on my 4.0 YJ... a 3100 CFM SPAL straight blade that sounds like a jet engine. However, don't waste your money on the cheap curved blade ones, trust me I tried to cool a 4.0 with a 1500 cfm hayden parts store special and it just plain didn't work.

I understand the diy/experiment slant here, but from experience... if you're not going to do it right, then just stick with the mechanical fan and shroud and wire the factory e-fan to a manual or temp controlled switch.

It's not going to heat up any faster in the winter without the mechanical fan running anyway... if the t-stat is closed, coolant isn't pumping through the system to be cooled off by the fan anyway... with a properly functioning cooling system it will take no longer to heat up with the fan running than it would with the fan off... the fan is simply to cool things off ONCE it gets to operating temp.
 
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So I'm in the process of doing some upgrades, and need some input. I want to do an e-fan mod, as with the weather being as cold as it has been, it takes forever for everything to get up to temp. I figure just shutting the fans off until the engine gets up to temp will help a lot. Originally, I was going to do ehalls simple dual electric fan mod. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1016319

However, In order to do this, I'm going to need to re-route the belt, and remove the fan stud, as this will not fit with the existing fan stud. This means sawzalling off the stud, or removing/swapping the bracket. Ehall again was good enough to provide this writeup: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1016319

I can then put in the high output alternator. I am starting to doubt the fan mod, and thinking better of it, I can make my own fan cowling, and was thinking of using two smaller fans with a plastic backing plate. I have seen a few people talk about using 10" e-fans, anyone have any part numbers for this?

Hey man, before you start cutting/modifying, check this page/

http://www.dirtboundoffroad.com/featured/xj-–-electric-fan-conversion-kit/

Those guys have a 3 electric fan bar that fits without modifying anything, just take out the stock fan (viscous) and put this one. I just swapped mine few days ago and I love it. There are 2 pricing options, the fan and the shroud(comes with 2 relays and some wiring) for about $225 and a $275 option that includes a 210 deg coupling to start the fans. I got the cheap version since I want to start the fans at 180. The fans are low profile and won't touch anything left on the engine (pulleys, belt, etc). You also need to trim the upper metal frame part for about 1/4 inch(sry, don't remember it's name) that is on the top of the radiator since it will touch the new fan shroud and won't sit flushed with it. If you need me to, I could post few pics, just let me know.

In regards to alternator, I got a mean green 200 amps from 4wd, great alternator but its a pain in the rear to install it due to the fact that it is so fat (larger than stock) and it touches the engine block. I wouldn't recommend buying it (its also $400+). I end up replacing the lower screw with a slimmer one that I had, the lower hole doesn't align with the bracket and the mount on the engine due to the fact the alternator touches the engine block. You can still install it for that reason but you could get the stock alternator re-wired and put a smaller pulley on it so it would have more amps at low rpm.
 
Prometheus,

Welcome to the board. Yes, I saw this kit and it has been referenced several times in posts by myself and others, however there are a few things I didn't like about it: Having to move the radiator forward, having to mount the fans in a way that makes it harder to work on front engine components (requires removal of radiator frame bracket to remove).

The DB fan replacement is a nice way to go if the goal is just to put efans in, however, this set of mods has 3 goals:

Make the vehicle easier to work on (efans are easier to remove than stock mechanical fans), also, eliminating the fan shaft means no more bearing to go bad.

Relocate the alternator to a higher position, allowing the installation of ZJ alternator.

The main reason for going to the efans was to provide better temp control, allowing me to simply "turn them off" when driving in cold weather, and at the same time, if the vehicle is running hot, turn the engine off, and still use the efans to continue cooling the radiator.

NotMatt,

You raise a very very good point on this that I hadn't really considered, in that the cooling system at least should be engineered to handle this situation. It seems at least part of my problem was solved yesterday, when I replaced a defective T-stat (I'm having issues with the vehicle simply not warming up, as a consequence fuel economy has been suffering), now temps are getting back up to "normal", however I think I installed a 190'ish tstat, so I keep getting surges in the coolant temp... it runs up to just below 210 at idle, but will drop rapidly once the tstat opens. I still think I want to go ahead with the mods for the reasons listed above, however the whole thing may be a longer term project than I wanted. Went over to the PYP and no TJs, without all the bits, no point in tearing up my DD jeep.

Also, I need to get to sleep, more later
 
Fan mounting bracket - Rough design

cherokee%20efan%20mount-600.jpg


While I was putting in a new water pump, I had all the fans/cowlings out, so I took some measurements. This fan should just "drop in" to a standard renix jeep radiator, it mounts using the normal bottom tabs, and will have holes cut for the top screws. Made of 14ga 6061 Solidworks says weight of the part should be less than a pound, which means I may double the thickness (.125"), which should increase the rigidity of the part.

I ordered a fan to evaluate, by calculation I should get about 2700CFM from 3 of the cheap-o fans. I looked around at some of the other fans out there, I couldn't find any fans in the 10-12" size that put out over 1000CFM (as I mentioned earlier), I did check SPAL, they are pretty awesome about the performance of the fans they offer (very detailed specs, oh and mechanical drawings of the fans). If I jump up to a 12" fan (theoretically the largest fan I can mount with the current package size) and go with 2 fans instead of 3, that will bump it up to around 3000CFM using 2 SPAL VA01-AP70/LL-36A * 12"P/12V
I still need to find the YJ bracket, a ZJ alt, and need to return the coolant filter I bought, they gave me a different mount (NAPA 4001 fuel filter base) which requires two bushings to get it to fit 5/8" heater hose, and has no mounting hardware.
 
I have been through just about every type of electric fan setup you can imagine. It has been a very expensive learning curve for me but here is what I learned:
1. You get what you pay for with electric fans
2. Made in China means it will fail before you expect it to
3. There is no replacement for displacement, CFM that is
4. You need a relay rated at 150% of the maximum current draw of all of your fans together if you want your electrical parts to last
5. Yes, you need shrouds

The best fans I have found are Spal. Yep those suckers are expensive but they move a shitload of air, just what you need to cool a 4.0 . You will most likely have to move your radiator forward to use Spal fans but for me it was worth it. There are companies starting to offer innovative fan setup which use a single high output motor to drive 2 or 3 fans using a belt. This might help some folks with unusual clearance issues.
 
also, Corprin found the XJ 4cyl with AC will have the right bracket, which may improve your bracket hunt

That is exactly what I am using for quite some time.

1) ZJ lower alternator mounting bracket.
2) An XJ 4 cylinder (2.5L) alternator/ AC compressor mounting bracket the same year as my XJ.
3) The two idler puleys from the donor engine.
4 All bolts and nuts from the donor engine.
5) A Renix era upper radiator hose.
6) The belt (alternator etc) from the same year XJ as the donor vehicle.

With setup, you will not be able to use a mechanical fan. However, I have been using a dual Derale fan setup since May of 2004. I had to do some modifications to get it to fit but they have served me well over the years with never a problem nor worry in the Miami FL summer rush hour traffic.


http://www.summitracing.com/search?keyword=DER-16928&dds=1

:cheers:
 
BulletMaker,

I really like the idea of 3 fans (same as DB offroad and yours). Not trying to convince you to go with it by any means, lol, I just think that 3 efan is the best way to cool off the wide and short radiator xjs have.

Regarding ease of work, the frame DB offroad built is relatively sturdy and won't bend unless you really want to bend it. Without pushing the radiator towards the front of the car I still have a comfortable inch between the fans and the pulley where the viscous fan was installed (measured where the nuts from the old fan are, you could also get a little more than 1/4 inch extra clearance if you cut the nuts since without the viscous fan mounted, they don't need to be that long). Pretty much I didn't do anything other than installing the DB fan bar. I also took about 1/4 inch from the long bracket (using a grinder) that sits on the top of the radiator, not that I had to, but I wanted to allow the fan shroud go more towards the radiator (as the long bracket sits on the radiator, I grinded the part that goes down, towards the radiator - sorry, I'm not too good explaining but I can take some pics if you think it can help). I also have a 1 row radiator, a 2 row radiator shouldn't be wider by more than 1/2, maybe max 3/4 inch compared to the 1 row, but only half of that extra width should go towards the engine, since the other half goes towards the front of the car/ac radiator. On the DB shroud, I used the supplied 2 brackets to secure the top part of the shroud on the long bracket that sits on the top of the radiator. To secure the lower part, I just used 3 sheet metal screws from Home Depot that I had and that go freely through lower radiator brackets where the old shroud and fan used to sit (your designed shroud is definitely a better solution, but I didn't feel like wasting too much time, so screws worked fine for me). To take the DB fan bar out, I only need to unscrew the top 2 screws and pull the fan bar up. Either disconnect the fans before, either cut the cable ties that secure the fan cable on the front on the car (which I just did few days ago when I blew up the radiator by being lazy when installing the thermo coupling for the radiator - the one that starts the fans when the temp reaches whatever value). In few words, replacing the radiator was a very easy task. I also have a tranny cooler mounted in front, that also gets cooled by the efans. I completely deleted the stock tranny cooler from the water radiator and I can say that in almost 20 k miles the oil for transmission looks as new, before I had discolorations due to operating at high temperature.

The way I have it set up, as electrical wiring, is this: 2 relays are connected one to center and one to passenger fans. I have a switch in the center console (inside the car) that gets a plus from the cigarette lighter (since its only on when you turn on the ignition and I don't use the lighter anyways, so I won't risk blowing the lighter fuse and have no power to switch on the fan relays). That plus goes to both center and passenger fan relays through the switch, so you can turn it off also when you go through high water, etc). From the battery I have another plus for both relays (and ofc fuses for each). Now, in between the switch plus and relay plus (the one that starts the fan, not the batt plus), you can insert the thermostat, so when the temp gets to a specific value in the radiator, the fans will start (of course as long as the console switch is on). This lets you turn the fans off when you want, and also prevents engine from overheating/running the fans for more than necessary.

The 3rd fan (driver) will be also connected to a switch in the center console, so I can start it when I feel like, but right now I hooked it up on the factory efan wiring. I live in Cleveland, it's cold here right now so no rush.

The thermo coupling that I use is a cheap 20-ish bucks from autoparts, this time I inserted the probe in the lower hose that gets water in the engine. On 20-30 degree weather that we have right now here, the 2 fans start for about 10-20 secs, they stop for about 30-60, and start again. This is with engine warm at idle. I still need to see how they will work in 100+ degrees, but I really don't foresee any issues with all 3 fans running, as long as they won't break, which will definitely suck... This is my only concern in regards to DB efans, I don't know how reliable are those fans.

Bottom line is that choosing in between all efan conversions available that I know off, the DB model is the best IMO. I also got a 13 in fan, from 4wd, but that required modifications that I didn't feel comfortable doing, including getting a different belt due to taking out the stock fan pulley.

Sorry for this long post, just thought to lay out my opinion and limited experience for whoever finds it useful.
 
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