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Ford 8 lug 44/60 swap questions

Jeep450r

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NAXJA Member
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Nor*cal
I'm considering swapping in a F250 hp44 and rear 60. Ill have no problem figuring out the fabrication portion of the swap but I have questions about the driveshafts and brakes.

What ujoints will I need at the axle side? I'm hoping to keep the stock driveshafts... What ujoints do I have now? 1310? Are conversion/adapters ujoints in my future?

I have stainless steel brake lines sitting in the garage. Will these just bolt up to the new 44 and 60 brakes? I don't know how the brake lines attach to the calipers or if its universal or not. Any need to mess with the porportioning valve?

Lastly (although its a little off topic) how much stretch can I get away with in the front before I will have steering box issues?

Any help or information will be greatly appreciated!
 
I can comment on the Ujoint question...

Yes, you have 1310s. You can change the pinion yoke of the full widths to what ever you want. I believe the 44 uses the same yoke as a D30, so you could potentially steal the one off of your current 30. Keep in mind that the pinion on a 44/60 is a lot longer than the ones on your current axles, so you may run into issues with your shafts being a little too long. Though any driveline shop will be able to shorten and balance. It's hard to say f they will fit though, considering we don't know what kind of lift your running, what your running for shafts, or if you plan to stretch at all.

Another note... You can run 1310, but should consider 1350, and stay away from 1330. Talking to Tom woods, they even advise against 1330. The strength gain over 1310 is marginal, and your actually losing misalignment.
 
Sweet. Good to know, that helps a lot! Now, all that I'm worried about is the brakes. Any help there?

And as far as ujoints go, is there a big strength difference between the 1310 and 1350? Are conversion/adapter ujoints known to be weak?
 
1350 = mucho stronger than 1310.
why do you want a rear 60? are you planning larger tires?
you will lose tons of clearance with the 60 unless you run at least 37's.
14 bolts are cheaper & stronger than 60's, detroits are way cheap for them & you can add a shave kit to get back some clearance.
if you are planning 37's or smaller i would probably put a 44 in the rear anyway.
 
I did the same swap on mine i used the factory ds and had them cut and got u-joints from parts store that where 1310 to 1350 or 1330 can't remember? . And yes the brake lines will work. It was a pretty easy swap but i should of went to a front Dana 60!!
 
1350 = mucho stronger than 1310.
why do you want a rear 60? are you planning larger tires?

I was thinking rear 60 because they are 8 lug, which would match the front. I dont want a 14 bolt because of how big/heavy they are and how massive the pumpkin is. I've never been a fan of 44 rears either. They are generally more expensive and weaker than the 60. I want to run 37s or the like.

I really want a ford 9" but they won't match the front 8 lug 44 I found.
 
I'm all for overkill.

I'll lose an inch of clearance if it means I don't have to worry about how I'm gonna get off the trail when my under built axle breaks. 98 times out of 100 when i get hung up on the center section, I back up a couple inches and just bump it and slide right over the rock.

as for the u joints, you can get 1310 yokes to swap onto those axles. some 44's and 60's even came with 1310 yokes from the factory. I'd do that before running a conversion U joint.

And as for driveshaft length, when swapping front axles in xj's most people build an inch or 2 or so of stretch into their control arm mounts and mount the coil on top of the axle tube as opposed to slightly ahead of it. This also helps with larger tire clearance. So the inch longer pinion of the 44 will be an non issue in the driveshaft length department.

I personally ran about 1.5" or stretch, a wagoneer pitman arm (pretty much required to match the throw of the 44 knuckles to retain good turning radius) with over the knuckle, inverted t steering with no a lot of lift at all. The drag link would make contact with the tie rod at full bump, but it wasn't bad enough for me to do anything about it.


As for stretching the rear, you will have to do some wheel arch modification and if you go back a considerable amount the differential might want to kiss the gas tank/skid. You can just shorten your current shaft if that isn't in the cards for you.


now onto the 14 bolt, yes they are heavy, the cool thing about them is you can run a c&c 14 bolt, which is only 63.5" wide, nice for xjs and small jeeps. With a shave and disc brakes there really isn't a reason not to run them. (the drum brakes alone have to account for about 100-150lbs of the total weight of them)


and as for the brake hose situation. I am not familiar with the ford caliper, but chevy has been using basically the same caliper from the early 70's to the late 90's on their trucks and many cars, single piston, all brake hoses work with eachother and the bigger ones are basically just that, the smaller caliper, but everything is bigger on it. I use mid 90's chevy c1500 brake hoses, they are about 26" long, bolt to the caliper, and easy to mount to the chassis. Just pry off the little metal intermediate clip that is used to secure it to the a-arm on the chevys.

if you do choose to go with a rear disc swap (which why not, less weight, much simpler, works better) most brackets (weld on and sometimes bolt on) use chevy 3/4 ton front brake calipers. They are super cheap and just plain work. for this you need a small brake hose to compensate for the caliper movement when the brakes wear. I used stock 87 j10 brake hoses, they are pretty short and bolt in. just make a tab to mount them to the axle. I have seen people directly run the hard line into the caliper, but you have to bend the line every time you want to work on the rearend, and it will constantly bend ever so slightly as the brakes wear and every time you step on the pedal. bending= breaking over time.


Oh, and I don't think i mentioned it yet, But in my experience, jeep brake hoses don't bolt to the chevy calipers, might work for ford, I am unsure.
 
That rear 60 ain't much of an upgrade over a d44 you still gonna have 30 spline shafts like the d44 and to go 35 spline you have to deal with boring the spindles, id go for a d60 isu out of a 92+ e250 or e350 van the e250 have 35 spline semi float c clip shafts and the e350 have full float 30 spline sfafts but have big bore spindles wich will acept 35 spline shafts without boring the spindles and in 98 they both got twin piston disc brakes. Now as far as 1310 ujoints go I've been running stock drive shafts with them for the past year on 38's and 60's without 1 issue and I've seen enough blown up 35 spline 60 stuff before 1310 ujoints to be very confident in em
 
In the 60s from e250s and 350s, are the shafts the same both left and right?

Will any junkyard 35 spl shafts fit in the e350 housing? Any junkyard 35 spline carriers? Or is my only 35 spline option to buy a full case locker and aftermarket shafts?
 
HP44/D60-ISU combo here... 98XJ 4.0/AW4 if that matters any.

jeep brake lines will bolt up to the dual piston ford calipers up front.
i'm running a 1.5" or so strech on 6" of lift and still needed to shorten my front DS, rear (w/ SYE obv) bolts up fine stock length
get new yokes, 1310s are plenty strong IMHO.
convert the rear to discs.
at the minimum, get a ZJ prop valve.. I have one and my rear still lock up too easily. I have a wilwood super crazy awesome prop valve that needs to go in to replace the jeep one.

IIRC, E250 shafts are 35 spline from the factory, 350 are 30 but the 35s slide right in. I bought my 60 built minus brakes so i cant comment on that.
 
In the 60s from e250s and 350s, are the shafts the same both left and right?

Will any junkyard 35 spl shafts fit in the e350 housing? Any junkyard 35 spline carriers? Or is my only 35 spline option to buy a full case locker and aftermarket shafts?

I know atleast 1 side there is a junkyard shaft that will fit, I can find the info when I get home, with that being said I paid around 200 a side if not less for my 35 spline alloys and 35 spline spider gears or lockrite will drop in
 
IIRC, E250 shafts are 35 spline from the factory, 350 are 30 but the 35s slide right in. I bought my 60 built minus brakes so i cant comment on that.

E350s are 32 spline from the factory, but yes 35 splines slide right in.

'99 and newer had disc brakes. All had smooth bottom housings with 3.5" tubes.

Mine's been holding up fine to 400+ HP on 40" tires with 5.38s, ARB, and cheap yukon 35 spline shafts.

I'd consider running the stock 32 spline stuff on 37s, but for less than $400 you can have 35 spline chromo stuff from Yukon. It's not worth it.
 
I'm thinking you will need a different master cylinder because the XJ master does not move enough volume of fluid for the bigger calipers. It may work but the pedal will travel farther before you get brake feel.
 
Well, the 44 I was looking at sold... So now Im back in the market for a 5 Lug Dana 44 and 9". Will I need to mess with my master cylinder with the smaller 5 lug brakes as well? If so, what needs to be done?
 
So just to clarify, I can run out to the junkyard and snatch 2 Dana 30 1310 yokes and they will bolt right up to the Dana 44? How about a 9"? The spline counts are the same? Thanks for the help guys!
 
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