3" to 4.5": Thoughts on my Plan?

Right now I have a mix n match lift on my 97 (4.0:/AX15/242):

• Front coils: 3" Skyjacker
• Rear leaves: 3" Skyjacker AAL
• Shocks: Zone Nitro. Front valved for 3-4.5" and rear for 3"
• LCAs: Rough Country fixed length for up to 4.5" of lift
• Trackbar: Iron Rock adjustable for 3-8"
• Tie Rod and ends: ZJ
• SYE: None right now. Just a 2" TC drop. Probably will do a H&T since I have a 242
• Swaybar disconnects: Good for 3-4.5"

You may have read a thread I started back in March about adding a shackle to cure my saggy butt from the rear tire carrier: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1081000

Instead of putting a "band aid" on the problem, I've decided to re-do most of the lift and go up to 4.5". Here's my plan:

• Leaf Springs: 2 new 3" rear leaves. Might go with Zone since I like their shocks but I'll go for the best bang for my buck if something else comes up (hint, anyone selling a full 3" leaf pack? ;-))
• Shackle relocation: HD Engineering
• Shocks: 2 new rear Zone Nitros for 4.5” lift
• Longer Adjustable Shackle: Anything that can give me about 1-2”
• New u-bolts
• Leaf spring shims. Probably 4 degrees but not 100% on this number.
• Front coil spring spacer

From my research it seems like the shackle relocation with a proper 45 degree angle and smaller leaves will give me a better ride than a full 4.5" leaf pack.

I figure a 1" lift shackle + the HD Boxes will net me an additional 1.5" over the 3" leaves to get me to 4.5" total. The adjustability of the shackle will be good to combat the additional weight of the tire carrier as well.

Can anyone think of any reasons not to go with each of the items in my list above? The only other thing I could think of was some UCAs for the front axle but if it's not necessary right away I'll wait to add them later.

Thank you in advance for your help.

My experience has been that new springs netted a higher lift than expected. So with the shackle relo kit and new shackles (I really like JKS), you might find yourself really tall and having rear driveline issue, even with shims.

You need to also factor a new drive shaft for the rear, especially if you add the HnT SYE for 242, as the distance will change and the stock shaft might be too short.

At 4.5" lift, the front axles gets closer to the rear part of the wheel well and the geometry of the LCAs affects drive-ability - the arms point down and part of the shock impact goes into the frame (instead of up to the suspension, if the arms were parallel to the road, as in stock). I found I was getting a pretty harsh ride at every bump in the road and had to install 3 items -

It's a choice, and you might elect to keep the geometry as it is. I found the ride quality on highway to be unacceptable and wanted to change that.

my first xj was 3" and then i went to 4.5 and regretted it. can of worms past 3", but usually everyone does it. shackle boxes are one of the best mods you can do tho.. aside from lockers.

yaromb said:

My experience has been that new springs netted a higher lift than expected. So with the shackle relo kit and new shackles (I really like JKS), you might find yourself really tall and having rear driveline issue, even with shims.

You need to also factor a new drive shaft for the rear, especially if you add the HnT SYE for 242, as the distance will change and the stock shaft might be too short.

At 4.5" lift, the front axles gets closer to the rear part of the wheel well and the geometry of the LCAs affects drive-ability - the arms point down and part of the shock impact goes into the frame (instead of up to the suspension, if the arms were parallel to the road, as in stock). I found I was getting a pretty harsh ride at every bump in the road and had to install 3 items -

1. LCA drop bracket kit - brings the LCAs back to a level position.
2. Adjustable LCAs - pushs the axle back to the center of the wheel well.
3. Adjustable UCAs - tilt the axles back to recommended 6 degrees and in line with front drive shaft.​

It's a choice, and you might elect to keep the geometry as it is. I found the ride quality on highway to be unacceptable and wanted to change that.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I figure with the 32" spare and rear tire carrier, plus hitch, as well as all the crap I keep in my cargo area, the springs should settle right where they should be. I can deal with a harsh ride until then-- I only drive it about 15 miles/day.

As far as the SYE, I gotta take some measurements and see what will work. I know the AX15/242 combo is unique and the AX15 is 1" longer than the AW4, so I probably need a shorter driveshaft than a stock front automatic for the rear.

Are the fixed RC LCAs for 4.5" of lift that I have on there now no good? I'd like to get away with keeping them and then doing a longer fixed/adjustable UCA if I have to.

djlarroc said:

my first xj was 3" and then i went to 4.5 and regretted it. can of worms past 3", but usually everyone does it. shackle boxes are one of the best mods you can do tho.. aside from lockers.

Click to expand...

My first was 3" as well. This current one was 4.5" but there were lift blocks in the rear on blown shocks so it rode like a wagon exploring the old west. I think I'm definitely going to do the boxes and look forward to the improved ride.

While you can get away with the stock LCAs on a 4.5", your ride will suffer. Look at the arms, and if they pointing down like 35 or 40 degrees, the suspension is not working optimally.

The other thing to look at is the axle centering and wheel beeing positioned exactly in the center of the wheel well.

The axle tends to pull backwards as you lift up. Depending on the tire size, you might have slight issues with rubbing the rear part of the opening, unless you trimmed your fenders...

I do not have such issues with 32s and stock flares, but my ride and steering were not great...

HQuakers said:

Instead of putting a "band aid" on the problem, I've decided to re-do most of the lift and go up to 4.5". Here's my plan:

• Leaf Springs: 2 new 3" rear leaves. Might go with Zone since I like their shocks but I'll go for the best bang for my buck if something else comes up (hint, anyone selling a full 3" leaf pack? ;-))
• Shackle relocation: HD Engineering
• Shocks: 2 new rear Zone Nitros for 4.5” lift
• Longer Adjustable Shackle: Anything that can give me about 1-2”
• New u-bolts
• Leaf spring shims. Probably 4 degrees but not 100% on this number.
• Front coil spring spacer

Click to expand...

I did this:

• coil spacers in the front (netted about 1.5" lift) with control arm drop brackets - traded a skid plate for the spacers and $15 in cash, bought the drop brackets from a vendor
• Using stock JK X or Rubicon shocks front and back - paid $20 to the local 4x4 shop for a set they pulled off a guys Jeep when they did his lift
• Hack and Tap SYE with front drive shaft in the back - bought the SYE from a vendor
• kept my 3.5" lift spring packs and swapped in shackles from a Dodge Ram pick up (netted about 1.5" lift) - $6.00 for the set at pull a part
• put in about 4-5 degrees of shim on the rear axle. I don't recall exactly

It worked very well. Drives pretty smooth and, at 6'6", I like now being able to stand up straight underneath the open tailgate instead of always knocking my head on the corner!!!

Cottontail said:

I did this:

• Using stock JK X or Rubicon shocks front and back - paid $20 to the local 4x4 shop for a set they pulled off a guys Jeep when they did his lift

Click to expand...

You can use the JK shocks at 4.5" of lift? I thought they were barely good up to 4"?


To OP: You can get a pair of RE 4.5" coils from seriousoffroad for about $60-70. I have 3" coils and a 1" spacer right now, and I'll be grabbing those coils when I take the next step.

fallacist said:

You can use the JK shocks at 4.5" of lift? I thought they were barely good up to 4"?


To OP: You can get a pair of RE 4.5" coils from seriousoffroad for about $60-70. I have 3" coils and a 1" spacer right now, and I'll be grabbing those coils when I take the next step.

Click to expand...

Let's just say they haven't failed me yet. I don't do a lot of extreme stuff. I'm sure if I did the shocks may double as limiting straps.

yaromb said:

While you can get away with the stock LCAs on a 4.5", your ride will suffer. Look at the arms, and if they pointing down like 35 or 40 degrees, the suspension is not working optimally.

The other thing to look at is the axle centering and wheel beeing positioned exactly in the center of the wheel well.

The axle tends to pull backwards as you lift up. Depending on the tire size, you might have slight issues with rubbing the rear part of the opening, unless you trimmed your fenders...

I do not have such issues with 32s and stock flares, but my ride and steering were not great...

Click to expand...

Yup, I totally see what you're saying. Thanks. Do you mean stock UCAs? I don't have stock LCAs.

I have Bushwacker flat flares and 32s and I'm nowhere near rubbing. Even when I was at 4.5" on stock flares I had enough clearance, though if I unhooked the swaybar it probably would have hit.

Cottontail said:

I did this:

• coil spacers in the front (netted about 1.5" lift) with control arm drop brackets
• Hack and Tap SYE with front drive shaft in the back - bought the SYE from a vendor
• kept my 3.5" lift spring packs and swapped in shackles from a Dodge Ram pick up (netted about 1.5" lift) - $6.00 for the set at pull a part
• put in about 4-5 degrees of shim on the rear axle. I don't recall exactly

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I'm going to try and get away with stock control arm location for now. As far as the driveshaft, I have an AX15/242 combo and from my research, a stock front DS may not work with this setup. I'm going to have to do the H&T SYE and then measure. I'd love to keep the stock leaves but they are 160k+ miles with an AAL in there. Just not good enough especially with the spare and tire carrier. Thanks for the shim info. I think 4 will be what I need.

fallacist said:

To OP: You can get a pair of RE 4.5" coils from seriousoffroad for about $60-70. I have 3" coils and a 1" spacer right now, and I'll be grabbing those coils when I take the next step.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Any reason not to go with a spacer in the front? From my research it seems like it doesn't affect the spring that much.

Thanks everyone for your help. :thumbup:

You know, I don't notice it a lot on this forum, but with other vehicles people seem to give spacers a hard rap. Kills ride quality, limits flex, etc. I run them as I was rubbing and didn't want to trim(so much for that) and I don't notice a difference in ride when I put them on. I also have RC non-adjustable LCA's good for 4.5".

BUT- I think the question is, why spend $25 on a 1" spacer, when you could spend $65 on 4.5" coil springs. More flex, looks better than a spacer, and some would argue the ride quality improves. The reason I didn't do the 4.5" coils was a) I didn't know I could get them for so cheap b) hadn't extended brake lines c) didn't think my JK shocks could handle over 4". I live less than 2 hours from 13K' mountain passes, and less than 3 hours from Moab, so my suspension does get worked..

Didn't notice if this was mentioned, but you'll need to expend your brake lines going from 3" to 4.5".

As far as the rear, I'm in your boat. I have a 3" leaf pack, not an AAL, and I'm not sure if I want to go with relo-shackle brackets, or 1.5" boomerang shackles. Replacing the shackles seems like less work than the boxes, and I've had horrible luck working on my heep so far.

I'm going to chime in tell you that I'm running 4 1/2" of lift and I had solid arms for my lowers with JKS's adjustable uppers. The ride just plain sucks. Every bump the arms feel like they're jamming into the subframe. I'm currently installing RC's drop brackets and going to 5 1/2". I'm doing this to keep the arm angles more level to get a better ride, I'm also swapping out my lower arms for adjustable with flex ends, the bushings on my two year old solid arms were shot to sh!t. Going from 3 to 4 1/2" you will definately see a change in ride quality.

fallacist said:

You know, I don't notice it a lot on this forum, but with other vehicles people seem to give spacers a hard rap. Kills ride quality, limits flex, etc. I run them as I was rubbing and didn't want to trim(so much for that) and I don't notice a difference in ride when I put them on. I also have RC non-adjustable LCA's good for 4.5".

BUT- I think the question is, why spend $25 on a 1" spacer, when you could spend $65 on 4.5" coil springs. More flex, looks better than a spacer, and some would argue the ride quality improves. The reason I didn't do the 4.5" coils was a) I didn't know I could get them for so cheap b) hadn't extended brake lines c) didn't think my JK shocks could handle over 4". I live less than 2 hours from 13K' mountain passes, and less than 3 hours from Moab, so my suspension does get worked..

Didn't notice if this was mentioned, but you'll need to expend your brake lines going from 3" to 4.5".

As far as the rear, I'm in your boat. I have a 3" leaf pack, not an AAL, and I'm not sure if I want to go with relo-shackle brackets, or 1.5" boomerang shackles. Replacing the shackles seems like less work than the boxes, and I've had horrible luck working on my heep so far.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. It's my understanding that the spacer doesn't affect compression or rebound. But you're right, I didn't know they were so cheap either. For that price it's worth it to have a new spring.

The rear line is extended. The fronts are stock I believe. I'll need to extend the fronts? I thought it was just the rear.

The main reason I'm going to relocation brackets is that it's supposed to improve the ride greatly. Right now my shackle angle sucks and it's a little harsh. For $130, it's worth it to me to improve the ride that much. I've had back luck with this one as well, but I figure there's nothing a sawzall, angle grinder, and torch can't fix on it

FuryIII said:

I'm going to chime in tell you that I'm running 4 1/2" of lift and I had solid arms for my lowers with JKS's adjustable uppers. The ride just plain sucks. Every bump the arms feel like they're jamming into the subframe. I'm currently installing RC's drop brackets and going to 5 1/2". I'm doing this to keep the arm angles more level to get a better ride, I'm also swapping out my lower arms for adjustable with flex ends, the bushings on my two year old solid arms were shot to sh!t. Going from 3 to 4 1/2" you will definately see a change in ride quality.

Click to expand...

Got it, thanks for the personal experience. What I'm going to do now is see if I can get away with the stock uppers and the fixed 4.5" lowers. If it gets too bad, I'll do the drop brackets and possibly adjustable uppers and lowers.

You all rock. Thank you for the suggestions! I am also kicking around the idea of going with some RE 3.5" leaves, HD relocation brackets, and stock shackles. Once they settle I'll be able to see if I need go get some small lift shackles or not, based on the weight of the spare, tire carrier, hitch, cargo, etc. Just a little worried about all the inconsistent reviews on RE stuff lately.

I just swapped out a set of RE 4.5" front springs. $50 shipped if you want em. The coating is chipping off in a few places, but they are springs so they work fine.

I'd say the drop brackets are a good idea because your axle will move further back with the higher lift you go on short arms. Ride quality will definitely be better also.

Definitely will need an SYE if you don't have one yet.

sunburned said:

I just swapped out a set of RE 4.5" front springs. $50 shipped if you want em. The coating is chipping off in a few places, but they are springs so they work fine.

I'd say the drop brackets are a good idea because your axle will move further back with the higher lift you go on short arms. Ride quality will definitely be better also.

Definitely will need an SYE if you don't have one yet.

Click to expand...

You have a PM.

Working on the SYE. Have a 2" TC drop now. Need to get a H&T kit and find a driveshaft/custom shaft to fit since I have an AX15 and 242 (from what I've read I'll need a 2" shorter shaft than a stock front auto shaft since the AX15 and 242 are each an inch longer than the AW4 and 231, respectively).

The LCAs take care of positioning the axle in the wheel well.

The UCAs tilt the axle to be in the right angle relative to the drive shaft.

That said, they both need to be at a proper length (adjusted) to work well together and allow proper alignment.

HQuakers said:

Yup, I totally see what you're saying. Thanks. Do you mean stock UCAs? I don't have stock LCAs.

I have Bushwacker flat flares and 32s and I'm nowhere near rubbing. Even when I was at 4.5" on stock flares I had enough clearance, though if I unhooked the swaybar it probably would have hit.

Click to expand...

yaromb said:

The LCAs take care of positioning the axle in the wheel well.

The UCAs tilt the axle to be in the right angle relative to the drive shaft.

That said, they both need to be at a proper length (adjusted) to work well together and allow proper alignment.

Click to expand...

Got it, thanks for the info!