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CAJJ93XJ
April 21st, 2012, 19:49
not getting the answers I need on other forums. I have a leaky radiator and possibly a plugged heater core (gonna suck if thats true)
here's the junk I was gonna buy

*B&M auto transmission cooler (http://www.amazon.com/70268-SuperCooler-Automatic-Transmission-Cooler/dp/B000CIGE9G)
*V8 ZJ fan clutch pt. #272310
*OEMwater pump
*OEM radiator
*195 tstat
*typical new hoses as well
*possibly an efan from a ford taurus if needed

I have a 93 base model 4.0 Aw4 np231
can someone confirm that those are all the correct parts?? I wanna be running at about 180*
and I dont want to screw up my order. I think thats everything. thanks in advance

oh. and also, should I throw anything else onto that list? might as well do everything at once

stockli
April 21st, 2012, 19:54
Id order an all metal rad non the stocker but thats me.

Shorty
April 21st, 2012, 20:01
everything on the list looks fine (although I agree that a copper/brass radiator would be a good upgrade)

don't forget:
a thermostat gasket
a heater control valve-- assuming a '93 has the valve (they tend to fail when attempting to change heater hoses)
a new radiator cap

I don't think you really want to be running @ 180*-- your fuel map in the ECU will be set for closer to 205* and the 195* thermostat won't be helping you see those temps either.

CAJJ93XJ
April 21st, 2012, 20:10
I'll get a copper or brass. I know I wont be getting aluminum that's for sure
205* is news to me I'll keep that in mind. everyone was recommending the 195 tstat. should I be getting a different one?

stockli
April 21st, 2012, 20:13
Make sure you get your tstat from the dealer.

Trust me. Its worth the extra $ and will help keep your jeep running at the right temp. And yeah 205-210 is where they are supposed to be running.

CAJJ93XJ
April 21st, 2012, 20:15
I was just gonna grab everything through oreilly where I get my discount. never steered me wrong in the past.
ok so all those cooling changes and upgrades should put me at 205ish and keep me there? overheating is a BIG concern of mine

Shorty
April 21st, 2012, 20:21
I'll get a copper or brass. I know I wont be getting aluminum that's for sure
205* is news to me I'll keep that in mind. everyone was recommending the 195 tstat. should I be getting a different one?

192*-195* is when the original thermostat opened. The efficiency of the cooling system will determine the actual operating temperature from there and in the case of our XJ's between 200* and 210* is the norm.

A lower temp. thermostat will open sooner (lower temp.) but from that point on, the final operating temp won't change. Often times, a colder thermostat can "band-aid" a cooling problem on short trips (never really reach full cooling system capacity) but it's not really changing anything.

Your mileage will be best with the temperature as close to where the engineers/programmers expected it to be when they designed the program for your ECU.

On a side note, mine currently runs about 175*-180* (stuck open thermostat but not a DD) and I did notice a loss in fuel economy.

stockli
April 21st, 2012, 20:28
192*-195* is when the original thermostat opened. The efficiency of the cooling system will determine the actual operating temperature from there and in the case of our XJ's between 200* and 210* is the norm.

A lower temp. thermostat will open sooner (lower temp.) but from that point on, the final operating temp won't change. Often times, a colder thermostat can "band-aid" a cooling problem on short trips (never really reach full cooling system capacity) but it's not really changing anything.

Your mileage will be best with the temperature as close to where the engineers/programmers expected it to be when they designed the program for your ECU.

On a side note, mine currently runs about 175*-180* (stuck open thermostat but not a DD) and I did notice a loss in fuel economy.

Also running too cool will affect your emissions.

Shorty
April 21st, 2012, 20:42
Also running too cool will affect your emissions.

true dat-- the richer mixture from the cooler temps will definitely reek havoc with emissions.

CAJJ93XJ
April 21st, 2012, 20:59
ok so lets go over my list again.

*trans cooler
*zj fan clutch
*brass rad and cap
*water pump
*heater control valve
*hope a heater core flush works

and just keep my stock tstat? it's not bad or anything
anything I'm still forgetting? new optimum temp goal is 200-210*

Shorty
April 21st, 2012, 21:08
all good, but I'd still replace the thermostat while I was in there.

CAJJ93XJ
April 21st, 2012, 21:11
all good, but I'd still replace the thermostat while I was in there.

with a factory tstat and gasket yes? thanks for the help. gotta get my engine running peak first before anything else

CAJJ93XJ
April 21st, 2012, 21:32
also can anyone confirm this is the correct trans cooler. I'd rather buy local but I dont know if napa or oreilly carries something of equal quality.
and I'm ready to purchase now so it gets here on time

http://www.amazon.com/70268-SuperCooler-Automatic-Transmission-Cooler/dp/B000CIGE9G

CAJJ93XJ
April 21st, 2012, 22:28
scratch that last post. that cooler is correct

O-Gauge Steamer
April 22nd, 2012, 07:56
The standing "rule of thumb" for engine operating temp vis-a-vis the T-Stat is T-Stat plus 15F. So, a 195F Ts-Stat gets you 210F and a 180F T-Stat should get you 195F. In truthm the 180F T-Stat will yield a slightly higher average due to radiator limitations.

My rig operated between 191F and 201F due to the setup I run.

I run a Davies-Craig EWP115 electric water pump. a 180F NAPA T-Stat (with an air bleed hole drilled), a Taurus two speed fan (running on low with the ignition on) and the factory aux fan. For a radiator, I run a CSF three core from radiatorbarn.com. I also have relocated my aux transmission cooler out from in front of the radiator as I found 5F in cooling by doing so. It sets on top of my front skid (spaced up off of it by about 0.650" or so) with a 650cfm puller fan and a T-Stat of it's own to control it. I do not run a stock front sway (Currie Antirock) so there is room. Plus I have moved the skid down 3" to restore functionality.

Wiring on the system is such that the Ford fan kicks to high speed when the engine temp gets 3C above the 90C (194F) set point via the EWP-115 controller. I have the Heep's fan wired to operate either from, command of the PCM or, the EWP-115 controller. This preserves normal operation and provides a huge kick when the EWP-115 calls for fan.

The system works. It took me the better part of three months to iron out all of the variables working with the Davies-Graig Engineers in Australia. I mean, how often do you get a chance to speak with the Managing Director of an overseas company? According to their warranty registrations, I have the only EWP-115 setup on a Cherokee in the world...

It was record a run on my laptop (via the OBDII port) chart the data, send the gragh and discuss the run with Engineering. THe DC folks were very interested in helping when I explained that heat issues are the norn for offroad Heeps. Eventually, we found the best method. My hood vents were the last piece of the puzzle. And, they are only 72insq...

But it is not an inexpensive solution...

ParadiseXJ
April 22nd, 2012, 08:35
Delete the heater valve, run hoses straight to/from the core...it will NOT affect your A/C if all your blend doors and vacuum is in good shape. It also helps the heater core stay clean.

If you're shooting for running @180F, you'll be disappointed, I'd be extremely surprised if you did. Especially in Sacto and surrounding hills, mountains in summer. I live near Chico, it just gets too hot to run that cool. All your upgrades sound just right. I have all those on my Jeeps, plus hood vents. I still run at 200-210 without fail.

...oh and I also run a 97+ 10 blade (curved) fan that I pulled from the junkers in Oroville. Good yard that.

bigalpha
April 22nd, 2012, 10:09
I, too, have a 97+ electrical fan. It's essentially a drop-in upgrade (have to change the plug) but it pulls more air.

CAJJ93XJ
April 22nd, 2012, 10:41
ok so in conclusion, a definite answer would be that I want a 180* t stat to reach 200*-210*F average?
I have a reallyyy big fear of overheating so I want to get this right haha..

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/16-1.jpg

bigalpha
April 22nd, 2012, 11:15
No, you want a 195 thermostat as was stated earlier. Also, you will want to flush your entire cooling system to remove any build up. Someone can chime in with a good product to use.

Your jeep won't catch on fire simply from overheating.

CAJJ93XJ
April 22nd, 2012, 12:00
ok I'm getting the 195 then. thanks for your help guys

techno1154
April 22nd, 2012, 13:02
The XJ of 0-guage-steamer is running at the perfect temperature using a 180 degree thermostat. :read:

While it is true his system is modified, the modifications are only to help it from getting too hot. The temperature rating of the thermostat dictates only the minimum temperature at which the engine runs. It still need a good cooling system to keep high temperatures in check.

I worked in Des Moines IA for the first part of winter 2007. During those days the engine would get up to 195 degrees very quickly and remain there regardless of the speed at which I drive. My XJ have no mechanical fan so at idle the temperature will rise until the electric fans come on and pull it back down. Unfortunately, in the hot South Florida summer, the temperature stays more in the 210 degree margin,... too hot for my likeing given the under engineered cooling system thus the many complaints from drivers of the temperature suddenly spikeing out of control.

If I ever replace the thermostat in the XJ again, I will go with one that is 180 degrees since it will allow the engine to get up to 190/195 degrees and give a slight safety margin on hot temperatures.

To each his own.

CAJJ93XJ
April 24th, 2012, 22:11
hey guys. just an update. priced out radiators. apparently you can spend $500-$1000 on a BRASS one. nice
I'll be getting a 2 row HD radiator thanks
and was told by the guy at napa that the zj fan clutch CANNOT WILL NOT DOES NOT drop into my 4.0 xj
I told him I wanted 97-98 zj v6 4.0 w/o max cooling. which one of us is the idiot?
possible that he looked up the v8 fan clutch??

thanks

xj dreamin
April 24th, 2012, 22:39
I think its the v8 piece but i believe the pat number is 27230? i have one in mine and it bolted right up...

CAJJ93XJ
April 24th, 2012, 22:56
I had part #272310. hmm v8 is the 5.2 liter right? or 5.7? maybe I'll just replace the parts that are bad then see how that holds up.
and hope I find the right fan clutch later

ParadiseXJ
April 25th, 2012, 07:03
There are 3 part numbers for the fan clutch...

The MAX COOL ZJ fan will not fit...no way...but the part number I gave you is good and it fits fine. We all have to give the parts guys an education from time to time. This guy apparently can't think out of the box. You are modifying the Jeep. I have one in both of my 4.0's...hmmm, I guess he's wrong. Just go in and ask for the PART NUMBER. Don't go through the 93, Jeep, cherokee, 4x4, 4.0 info. Don't tell him it's for an XJ. If I'm wrong and you can't fit it or return it I'll buy it from you.

O-Gauge Steamer
April 26th, 2012, 06:43
I have, personally, installed two of the ZJ 4.0L Standard, non-HD fan clutches in two different XJs and can attest to the fact they drop in. The HD (max cool) clutch will not fit.

Good thing too as your Heep will sound like something from WWII, but it fits. Owing the the increased coupling percentage, the fan will be making more noise. As in hear it coming from down the block noise. But, and it is a big but, the clutch makes the fan pump an amazing amount or air.

The reason for the big noise is the fan diameter differences between an XJ and a ZJ. The ZJ fan is much larger and the clutch slips a bit more with that fan on it holding the noise down. Our little fans just spin right up.

ParadiseXJ
April 26th, 2012, 20:06
Hmm, I don't notice the added noise. Of course I am completely deaf in my left ear...that may have some bearing on it.

CAJJ93XJ
April 28th, 2012, 20:45
ok guys I hope this is all correct. zj fan clutch, 195 tstat, water pump, heater core, auto transmission cooler, and I have a radiator to be delivered on monday. thanks for your help everyone I hope this all works.
I also cut my hood to let some hot air out. should stay nice and cool

I HAD A QUESTION about my fan clutch. do I need a new fan to go with it?? I literally just bought the clutch
it bolts right onto the water pump perfectly

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/97.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/96.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/107.jpg

Shorty
April 28th, 2012, 20:50
I HAD A QUESTION about my fan clutch. do I need a new fan to go with it?? I literally just bought the clutch
it bolts right onto the water pump perfectly

your fan should fit the clutch with no need for a replacement-- but the clutch doesn't mount on the water pump in an XJ. It mounts to the passenger side of the water pump on an idler shaft and pulley, IIRC.

CAJJ93XJ
April 28th, 2012, 20:50
oh and I was also going to pick up a 97 electric fan today but he bailed on me. I dont think I'll need it though. we'll see
what happens if all this puts me below 200*??

bigalpha
April 28th, 2012, 20:52
I'd still recommend a 97+ fan; it's such an easy upgrade.

Also, put a temp. sensor in when you do the aux trans cooler.

CAJJ93XJ
April 28th, 2012, 20:53
your fan should fit the clutch with no need for a replacement-- but the clutch doesn't mount on the water pump in an XJ. It mounts to the passenger side of the water pump on an idler shaft and pulley, IIRC.

hm well I took it out of the box and it fits right up to the back of the pump.. I'm not really positive how it works I've never done this before.
but I'm 100% sure it's the right clutch

my question was should I get a zj fan to replace my stock fan? or just install the clutch and call it good

CAJJ93XJ
April 28th, 2012, 20:53
I'd still recommend a 97+ fan; it's such an easy upgrade.

Also, put a temp. sensor in when you do the aux trans cooler.

but the temp sensor they had on amazon was like $60 :(
can I get one for cheaper anywhere?

bigalpha
April 28th, 2012, 20:55
but the temp sensor they had on amazon was like $60 :(
can I get one for cheaper anywhere?


I'm sure that you can. I think mine is a B&M gauge.

Shorty
April 28th, 2012, 20:55
mileage will suffer and you will be one of the few with an over efficient cooling system. I'd doubt that you'll run under 200* once it's up to full operating temp, but it might take a bit longer to get there-- mileage will still suffer a bit, but not enough for most people to worry about.

Shorty
April 28th, 2012, 20:56
my question was should I get a zj fan to replace my stock fan? or just install the clutch and call it good

your fan should fit fine-- call it good

CAJJ93XJ
April 28th, 2012, 21:00
mileage will suffer and you will be one of the few with an over efficient cooling system. I'd doubt that you'll run under 200* once it's up to full operating temp, but it might take a bit longer to get there-- mileage will still suffer a bit, but not enough for most people to worry about.

If I wanted to save gas I would've gotten a honda haha. as long as I'm running between 200*-210* and never going above 220* I'm fine.
thanks guys. it was all worth it with the body shop discount. I'll get everything installed by next weekend and update you all again

once again, anything I should add to my goodie pile while I have everything taken apart? besides trans temp sensor. I'm pretty much tapped out of cash

Shorty
April 28th, 2012, 21:11
you've got a solid plan-- just take your time and install everything you've got.It should net you very good results

CAJJ93XJ
April 28th, 2012, 21:29
thanks. good to know. I want this engine to be running perfect before I put bigger tires on. gonna do some MAJOR cleaning and leak fixing after this. then some fun upgrades.
see you guys next weekend.

bigalpha
April 29th, 2012, 08:28
Make sure you do a good flush of the cooling system! Some people have suggested running 50/50 vinegar/water for a day or two to help gently remove corrosion.

Oh, and I don't remember how the hoses on the 92+ models are, but my 88 RENIX has some stupid flared hoses.

CAJJ93XJ
April 29th, 2012, 11:34
yeah I'll mix my own with water I've never heard of vinegar though. I'll get everything flushed out properly

CAJJ93XJ
May 10th, 2012, 18:22
hey guys. quick update on my progress and a question. the zj fan clutch fits!
but the guy gave me the wrong hoses, heater core, and water pump along with it.

here's where were at right now

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/122.jpg...http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/124.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/128.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/123.jpg






and here's the casualty of war. what is it? it came out from the back of the dash and I have no idea what it went to. any help?

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/126.jpg

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q595/jskwibble/125.jpg