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Winch thoughts..

B

Bleckers3

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Waretown, NJ
I really like the idea of a hydro winch for duty cycle and work ability. But I have limited hands on experience.

I am considering a dual battery using my boating experience with a blue sea acr and switch.

Are the hydros that bad? Or are the electrics just that common.
 
My Buddy has a hydro winch on his CJ and I love it, so does he. Don't have to worry about it over heating and it pulls like a freight train. He had to put in a aftermarket power steering pump and larger reservoir. I will be switching to one eventually. The downside is that if your rig wont run your not using your winch.

I don't think it's that hydro winches are bad I think people are put off with dealing with hydraulic systems and the fact if your engine doesn't run your winch doesn't work. Any heavy duty winch on large equipement is hydraulic... there is a reason for that.
 
Nothing wrong with the concept of hydraulic winches, it just seems overkill on a jeep.(hopefully you aren't winching that much) adding a larger ps pump could be helpful if running hydro assist though.
My 8274 hasn't gotten hot, or let me down. I guess a lot of depends on your plans for the build.
 
Im not a fan of water crossing. Mines built more as an adventure jeep. I'd think a pulley to raise pressure at low rpm would be great. I have a 98 xj. I plan to swap psc box when I install the winch mount/ frame stiffeners.
 
Hydraulic winches suck donkey balls. If all you do is pull yourself out of big mud holes, fine, but if you're going to winch on a trail they suck. Many times when you need to winch yourself you also have to turn, and as soon as you turn the wheel the winch stops pulling. I've seen this with rigs that had different PS pumps and larger reservoirs. Way back when we (Bakersfield Trailblazers) led the annual run up Surprise Canyon, where you have to winch up 8 waterfalls in a narrow canyon, we ended up having to not allow any hydraulic winches. We'd have to turn a rig around in the narrow canyon to winch the guys with hydraulic winches because they couldn't winch themselves and negotiate the climb at the same time.

If you'll only winch other people while you're stopped, or only winch yourself out of a hole straight ahead, fine, but for everything else they suck.

BTW, you can also run a winch on one good battery. 95%+ of everyone who has a winch only has one battery.
 
Goatman said:
Hydraulic winches suck donkey balls. If all you do is pull yourself out of big mud holes, fine, but if you're going to winch on a trail they suck. Many times when you need to winch yourself you also have to turn, and as soon as you turn the wheel the winch stops pulling. I've seen this with rigs that had different PS pumps and larger reservoirs. Way back when we (Bakersfield Trailblazers) led the annual run up Surprise Canyon, where you have to winch up 8 waterfalls in a narrow canyon, we ended up having to not allow any hydraulic winches. We'd have to turn a rig around in the narrow canyon to winch the guys with hydraulic winches because they couldn't winch themselves and negotiate the climb at the same time.

If you'll only winch other people while you're stopped, or only winch yourself out of a hole straight ahead, fine, but for everything else they suck.

BTW, you can also run a winch on one good battery. 95%+ of everyone who has a winch only has one battery.
Click to expand...

Good insight. Never thought about that problem, could out be over come with a high volume pump
 
Milford Cubicle II said:
Can't you just throw it in N and bump up your rpm's to fix the slowness/steering problem?
Click to expand...


Not really. Unless you're broken and can't put it in gear, you're always driving at the same time you're winching.



There's just no point to a hydraulic winch. An electric winch works just fine.

Get the winch mounted, then plumb the hydraulic lines, tie into the existing PS system, get a bigger pump (which is going to be what pump?), make mounts for the bigger pump, figure out the serpentine belt for the new pump, get a bigger (much bigger) reservoir, hook up the hydraulic controls/switch.........or, mount the electric winch, hook up the cables to the battery, throw the winch control in the console or glove box. You choose.

Like I said before, I've already seen guys with upgraded systems and they still had trouble. Why screw around with it?
 
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people using hydro winches with great success. To say that there's no point to them is pretty ignorant, IMHO. With the right flow rate (higher RPM's) a hydro can be just as fast and faster than an electric but with much more power and without burning your winch and/or your battery and cables up. Let's just say that there are certainly downsides to electric as well, it's not all positives like you put it.

I still don't see why you can't just throw the jeep in N and bump the rpm's to winch much faster and have full steering power - when necessary.
 
Milford Cubicle II said:
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people using hydro winches with great success. To say that there's no point to them is pretty ignorant, IMHO. With the right flow rate (higher RPM's) a hydro can be just as fast and faster than an electric but with much more power and without burning your winch and/or your battery and cables up. Let's just say that there are certainly downsides to electric as well, it's not all positives like you put it.

I still don't see why you can't just throw the jeep in N and bump the rpm's to winch much faster and have full steering power - when necessary.
Click to expand...


You can say what you want. I speak from experience, which is what my opinion is based on. You speak from......??

Not digging the ignorant comment, and I could get pretty edgy here, but I won't. I can only share from my experience, for whatever that's worth, do with the info what you want.

I would assume that you haven't done much winching on the trail. In most cases you still need to drive the car to get unstuck, even with the winch pulling. If the front tires are buried they need to spin while winching to pop out of the hole, if you're stuck in rocks the front tires need to spin to pop the front tire up over a rock or ledge. With only the winch, and tires not spinning/trans in neutral, the front tires can dig in and the chassis unloads uncomfortably from the pull on the winch and you really stress the front suspension and steering trying to get the front tires to pop up. In most cases the car needs to be driven while winching.

As far as a bigger pump, more pressure won't help, you need more flow. What pump would you use? A P pump would have the most flow, have to figure out how to mount one on a 4.0L. Can be done, what's the cost of a modified P pump and mounting brackets? Then is that enough? I've already seen guys with P pumps (don't know how modified they were) and very large reservoirs not be able to winch while turning. Not a theory, I've been there, and had to get an electric winch vehicle to pull them since they couldn't pull themselves......numerous times.

I have done a LOT of winching. Yes, you can make modifications to get a hydraulic winch to work better. Yes, a hydraulic winch will work great in some situations. But, is it worth the hassle and expense of a good install with upgraded steering parts and the risk that it still won't work in important situations? I don't think so. An electric winch is straight forward, simple, and works well. Yes, you must be aware of winch heat and battery heat on a very long hard pull, so use some awareness and common sense and don't get in a hurry.

So, IMHO, there is no point in having a hydraulic winch.
 
I ran a hydro winch and switched to an electric for all the problems mentioned above.

Hydro winches are very slow.
You can NOT steer when winching.
Hydro winches are very very slow.
If your engine cuts out you have no winch.
Hydro winches are very very very slow.
 
I'm starting to think that a quality electric is fine. In NJ at least most of the winching is mud/sand related...

I think a dual battery is a must, just for piece of mind.

So....

Steel Cable or Synthetic winch line?
 
Bleckers3 said:
I'm starting to think that a quality electric is fine. In NJ at least most of the winching is mud/sand related...

I think a dual battery is a must, just for piece of mind.

So....

Steel Cable or Synthetic winch line?
Click to expand...


The only time dual batteries will really help you is if your engine was dead, but, there's certainly nothing wrong with having dual batteries. Like I said before, 95%+ of everyone who has a winch has only one battery. If you have a long hard pull you should stop in the middle of the pull anyway to let the winch and the battery cool down.

There are two benefits of rope, safety from no recoil if the winch line breaks and the ability to handle the line without wearing gloves. The downsides are the rope is not as durable as cable, you must be very careful with abrasion around rocks and trees. The rope is susceptible over time of grit (mud, dirt,sand) getting into the fibers of the rope and weakening the rope.

Cable is very durable and less expensive, but you need to always wear gloves when handling it. The cable gets little short wires sticking out that catch your hands when handling the winch line. But, you can rub on rocks and trees and drag it through mud and sand without hurting the line. The biggest thing about cable is potential injury from the recoil if the cable snaps. To avoid this the cable must be used with more care than is necessary with rope. NEVER reel in the cable when there is any slack in the line.

When the cable is reeled in with slack then loose wraps get around the drum, then when the winch line tightens the loose wrap gets a kink in it, and down the road the cable can break where there is a kink. So, no kinks, and no winching in with loose line. When the winch is reeled in before or after a pull someone must grab the line and hold it so there's no slack. When you are winching yourself you must stay easy on the throttle so you don't over drive the winch line and get the line loose, relax, you're already winching, let the winch do it's job and modulate the throttle to keep the line tight. If you're ever helping someone else winch and you see that their winch cable has a bunch of kinks in it, refuse to use that winch and get another rig to do the pull, and tell the guy to go buy a new winch line.

So, cable or rope? It's up to you.
 
BRIANHO13 said:
I ran a hydro winch and switched to an electric for all the problems mentioned above.

Hydro winches are very slow.
You can NOT steer when winching.
Hydro winches are very very slow.
If your engine cuts out you have no winch.
Hydro winches are very very very slow.
Click to expand...


Ok, quit with the "if your engine's not running then you can't winch" argument. It's true of course - but it's just as likely if not more so to have an alternator or electrical problem than it is for your engine to stop running altogether. And as far as the not steering thing goes, others that have had a hydro winch will have to chime in because I have not heard from others that you can NOT steer while winching.
 
"quit with the technical reasons why electric is better because I'm tired of hearing why I'm wrong".

Feeling that way doesn't make it any less wrong.

I used to wheel with a bronco guy who had a ramsey 12000 pound hydro winch. I can confirm that you cannot winch and steer. As soon as you touch the steering wheel, winch stops moving - and doesnt start again for quite some time (5-10 seconds every time you adjust the wheel).

Hydraulic winches are a poor decision in most if not all situations. Its a very complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
 
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