Can someone please help me with a picture or two?

1995 XJ need ignition help please...

I’ve been battling a 1995 XJ that won’t start anymore. It died while filling the tank at the gas station. When I got back in after filling the tank it just wouldn’t start any longer. I had it towed to my mechanic and after two months he has no idea so I had it towed back home. Time for me to get an education! I started reading lots of threads on the internet and after trying almost everything I’m now going after the possibility that there may be an ICM and/or the Cam Position Sensor?


A little history: a while back (6 or so months ago) I had a problem that the XJ would die while driving and it was the coil. I replaced it about a half dozen times then the very last time I flipped the bracket around to move it a little further away from the engine (to keep it a little cooler) and no more problems. I heard they were heat sensitive and my engine runs at a constant 220. Then I started having a problem where the XJ would die while driving, I would pull over and wait a couple minutes, then would run again. I replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor and it ran fine for about 3 weeks. Then one day at the gas station it died for good or should I say it just never started again and AAA had to tow it to a shop. I’ve had a host of people trying to help including professional mechanics and Jeep enthusiasts to no avail. Everyone says the stuff that should be working is working.


What we know is the coil gets a jolt of voltage at first startup then the shutdown relay goes into action and no more voltage. We don’t know why this is happening. After the initial voltage jolt I get nothing at the plugs, coil and distributor output.


We have replaced with new the Crank Position Sensor, Coil, Starter, Battery, relays, Rotor, Distributor Cap, Spark Plugs & Wires, & ECM or ECU whatever you want to call it, and have checked all the fuses & most of the connections.


Any ideas? Does my Jeep have an ICM or Cam Position Sensor?

TIA!

Did you use an OEM Crank position sensor? Too many threads on bad aftermarket sensors. Many on here have only had luck with one from the dealer (after replacing numerous aftermarket ones).

Cam position sensor I believe is located in the distributor

All the CPS stuff tested good.

I WAS wondering about the CaPS or Stator?

Found this. I'll test this weekend when I am first able to get to my Jeep.

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Engine/Cam_Position_Sensor_and_Sync_Pulse_Stator.htm

It's GOT to be this!!!!! :looney:

Keeping fingers crossed!

That is a RENIX SYNC sensor. You have OBD1. What codes are you getting?

When my 96 did this it was the coil, exact same symptoms with the exception of the ASD relay shutting off.

You have fuel pressure?

You have spark?

You have compression?

You have air?

Then it should run!

Someone on here will steer you in the right direction to fix this issue. Have you pulled the distributor out and looked to see if the gear/shaft are in good shape. Also, its not too far fetched to think it could have skipped or snapped the timing chain

When the cam position sensor on my 95 died, it set a code. Ditto the 93, and surprisingly (for OBDI) it was the right code too. Of course there's a possibility it won't every time, but I wonder about that.

However, with both these failures I found (accidentally initially) that an XJ of that vintage with a bad cam sensor can be started. What you do is turn the ignition on, then get under the hood, and disconnect the distributor plug, and then reconnect it. A series of clicks and buzzes ensues, as the system finishes booting up, and you get one start. It may not run terribly well, since injection timing is uncontrolled, but it will run. My 95 ran hot when I did this, but it got me home.

If that works for you, then it's probably worth replacing the sensor even if it doesn't set a code.

The article cited is wrong on one count: earlier Mopar systems used the same setup as Renix. The 93 required the distributor to be taken apart. The 95 is as described, very simple to do.

@xjtrailrider - We replaced and tested the coil with a known working Mopar factory one so we're pretty sure that end is ok.

@Matthew Currie - I don't have a computer so how can I check the code? This confuses me as I've done it with another vehicle a long time ago and just saw a bunch of flashing lights but couldn't make heads or tails at the number of flashes to be able to put the codes together. It was just flashing like crazy and I was like WTF??? :wierd:

[FONT=&quot]OBD1 Codes Retrieval (Pre-1995 Cars and Trucks)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]How to get the code/s for Chrysler 1983-1995 vehicles:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Within a period of 5 seconds, cycle the ignition key
ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Count the number of time the MIL (check engine lamp)
on the instrument panel flashes on and off. The number
of flashes represents the trouble code. There is a short
pause between the flashes representing the 1st and 2nd
digits of the code. Longer pauses are used to separate
individual 2-digit trouble code. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]An example of a flashed DTC is as follows:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-Lamp flashes 4 times, pauses, then flashes 6 more times.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This denotes a DTC number 46.
-Lamp flashes 5 times, pauses, then flashes 5 more times.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This indicates a DTC number 55.
DTC 55 will always be the last code to be displayed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Here's how your ignition key looks like. Make sure to cycle
it between on and off positions only.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Clearing codes can be performed by turning the ignition off
and removing the negative battery cable for at least 1 minute.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Chrysler products COMMON CODES OBD1 (vehicles made before 1995)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Part 1: Chrysler Domestic vehicles[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CODES/Meaning[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]88 display used for start or test
11 camshaft signal or ignition signal, no reference signal during cranking
12 memory to controller has been cleared within 50-100 engine starts
13 map sensor not detecting any change during test
14 map voltage too high or too low
15 vehicle speed sensor, no signal detected
16 knock sensor circuit. open or short detected
17 low engine temperature, possible thermostat fault
21 oxygen sensor signal, neither rich or lean detected
22 coolant sensor voltage low
23 air charge voltage high/low detected
24 throttle positioner sensor voltage high/low
25 automatic idle speed motor driver circuit, short or open detected
26 injectors 1,2,3 peak current not reached
27 injector control circuit does not respond to control signal
31 purge solenoid circuit, open or short detected
32 egr solenoid circuit, open or short detected
33 a/c clutch relay circuit, open or short detected
34 speed control servo solenoid, open or short detected
35 radiator fan control relay circuit, open or short detected
36 wastegate solenoid, open or short detected
37 part throttle unlock(PTU) circuit, open or short detected
41 charging system circuit not responding to control signal
42 fuel pump or auto shutdown (ASD) relay voltage sensed at controller
43 ignition control circuit not responding
44 battery temperature voltage circuit problem
45 turbo boost limit exceeded-map sensor detects overboost
46 battery voltage too high
47 battery voltage too low
51 air/fuel at limit
52 logic module fault
53 internal controller failure
54 camshaft reference circuit not detected
55 end of message
61 baro read solenoid, open or short detected
62 emr mileage not stored
63 eeprom write denied
64 flex fuel sensor signal out of range
65 manifold tuning valve, open or short detected
66 no ccd messages
76 ballast bypass relay, open or short detected
77 speed control relay, open or short detected[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

WOW! Great post!

Thanks for that!

I'll try it & see what I get.

:thumbup:

Four2score said:

WOW! Great post!

Thanks for that!

I'll try it & see what I get.

:thumbup:

Click to expand...

Video the flashes with your cell phone, host the video on photobucket or the like, and we can help you determine what the codes are.

I'm sorry if I was vague on the code, but what I meant was that when my cam sensor failed it lit the check engine light. You did not specify whether this had occurred, so I presumed that it had not, and didn't bother to follow up on reading the codes. So thanks to Xjtrailrider for that one. I hope he had it to cut and paste and didn't wear his fingertips to a stub.

Something else to check that I don't see mentioned yet - Neutral Safety Switch.

xjbrian219 said:

Something else to check that I don't see mentioned yet - Neutral Safety Switch.

Click to expand...

This would be a "no crank" issue

Maybe i missed something but I believe he has a "crank-no start" issue


Matthew, I copied/paste all of that from my diagnostics file.

http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes/sensors/auto-shutdown.html

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/asd-relay-what-triggers-482173/

Newer model, 2000, but might give us some hints:

http://autotechdiagnostics.com/?p=52

Has anyone thought to look at the fuel? I've seen gas stations get water in their tanks.

unless it was BONE dry and was towed to the gas station it would have started and ran for 15-20 miles before dying

Tacedaddy said:

unless it was BONE dry and was towed to the gas station it would have started and ran for 15-20 miles before dying

Click to expand...

Granted I would expect it to start but I'd doubt they'd get 15-20 miles on the fuel in the filter and line on a return fuel system when gas it lighter than water.

While working on this you should look at your cooling system. Mine never hits above 210 stock. Now I have it running around 195 to 200.

MJR found it! It was just as I suspected in this post. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245573196&postcount=4

What's odd is I was expecting to find the newer 4.0 style sensor in my '95 but what I actually had was the older 1987-1990 Renix type. :dunno:

Four2score said:

MJR found it! It was just as I suspected in this post. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245573196&postcount=4

What's odd is I was expecting to find the newer 4.0 style sensor in my '95 but what I actually had was the older 1987-1990 Renix type. :dunno:

Click to expand...

I suspect that some previous owner had a distributor problem and replaced it with an earlier one. The 93 I did had the early type too, so it's clearly interchangeable. As long as it works it's good.