CA Gross Poluter opinions

Darn, my 1987 Wagoneer Limited with 4.0L auto trans, power everything, D44 rear, Factory tow package, open loop cooling system, newish head, good body, fair interior, new radiator, etc....(no lift).

Has just been deemed a gross poluter at the smog check I just had done.

It sure seems to run fine and I had a Cat and Muffler put in about 9 months ago.

Anybody have opinions on wether or not I should take it to a shop to find the problem....or is it time to PART IT OUT?

Any opinions are welcome. I am frustrated because I was certain it would pass cause it has been running great.

I showed up to the station nice and warm, but had to wait 30 min for the test to start, if that matters.

Thanks,

Dave.

Check all your vacuum lines and replace sketchy ones. Even a little leak can screw up your results...and replace your O2 sensor if you haven't in the last 2 years. Buy a NEW gas cap.

Running great doesn't mean your emissions are in line, it could mean you're running rich. How's your mileage?

It would help if you could post up the test results.

Mileage is approx 13 mpg. but not more than that...all in-town driving. Very rare do I drive it on the freeway.

Results:

15MPH HC PPM: 303 CO% : 6.86 NO PPM: 111
25MPH HC PPM: 285 CO% : 6.70 NO PPM: 78

MAX HC PPM IS 133 MAX CO% IS 1.15

if I can get it to pass it would be preferred over getting rid of it.

Thanks for the replies, I will now be looking at the vac lines after work.

Dave

Well I have checked the CCV is ok

the EGR Solenoid is ok

Then to test EGR and I cannot get it to hold any vacuum. By the book it is to hold 15psi from hand Vacuum pump. It will not hold any.

Looks like I have found the culprit.

Dave

Glad you found the problem.

My Fiancee' thinks I'm a gross polluter after a good meal. assgas:

just FYI once you get tagged as a gross polluter in CA you have to retest every year exactly why I go in for a pre-test (does not report to the state) before I'm due. Good luck, hope you pass. Where in CA are you?

Thanks I am going to check a couple more things as well.

I have had to test every year for the past few years without being a gross polluter for whatever reason.

I was unaware of the pre-test.

I am in Livermore (east bay area)

The EGR is ordered and will be in tomorrow for me to pick up...so we shall see. I will follow up with the results.

Dave

cj5wagomando said:

Thanks I am going to check a couple more things as well.

I have had to test every year for the past few years without being a gross polluter for whatever reason.

I was unaware of the pre-test.

I am in Livermore (east bay area)

The EGR is ordered and will be in tomorrow for me to pick up...so we shall see. I will follow up with the results.

Dave

Click to expand...

Pre-test is the same as the normal test, but not transmitted to state/DMV.
Did you inspect the "UFO" in the EGR system. Little black piece with vacuum lines attached to it. That is most likely the issue, you can remove it and pull it apart, there is a diaphragm inside, most likely torn. Unfortunautely, unless you go to a junkyard you have to buy the egr to get that. You can try installing it by itself and if that solves your prob, then keep the new as a spare?
MY egr does not work due to the vacuum solenoid. But I do not have to Smog mine. (=

by "UFO" do you mean the "flying saucer" shaped part of the EGR, than yes I visually inspected it while revving the engine to see if it responded. It did but very little. The same as the needle on the vac guage would raise a bit and drop right back when trying to pull a vacuum on the EGR per the manual.

I am thinking that replacing the EGR may end up cheaper in the long run as opposed to the junk yard run.

my vacuum solenoid passed the test per my Chiltons.

Dave.

Never said JY was the best option, but you can try replacing that plastic piece by itself first and see if that solves the problem. If it does, then hold on to your new egr valve til it needs to be replaced. IMO, less work is better (=

ok, gotcha, thanks

High HC and CO not likely caused by EGR, so check other areas. Here's two sites found with simple Google searches.
Look here for diagnosis help:
-for high “HC” http://www.smogtips.com/failed-high-hydrocarbons-HC.cfm
-for high “CO” http://www.smogtips.com/failed-high-carbon-monoxide-CO.cfm
Many more “tips” doing Google searches: “high HC” and “high CO”

Greets.., from N.Cal., now AK. You wanted any opinions.., ok.., by pass all of those strangling gasoline emmisons b.s. widgets. Back in '71 I converted my VW Transporter, 1500cc w/1600 heads superstudded to block.., to run on C3H8. I did not utilize IMCO, nor Century conversion kits.., but you might want to look into them as a way to run 'clean-air-fuel', and get a California Board of Equalization tax break immediately at the dealer pumps with a window sticker.., which will at some point pay for the conversion. What you would need is a Jeep Cherokee 10 gal gas tank to do a dual-fuel system, or other suitable tank from some junked bubble car, and in the space left, introduce a C3H8 tank. No big deal. If you do it correctly, you could probably still use your skid plate, with a few mods, i.e., couple of holes. Just a little imagination, some little additional parts. I would drill four holes through the interior cargo area at the drafted out point, and make eight(8) 1/4" steel plates, 7" square, with matching holes for bolts, washers, nuts, and some gasket material, like inner tube rubber, to meet the requirement of beefing up the foundation necessary for giving the surrounding mounting loops of the tank a secure mount to the underside of the cargo space. If not the dual-fuel, only C3H8 useage, then the foregoing is moot, except for tank mounting. The tank needs to be mounted in such a way that the 10 percent relief valve, and blowby valve are pointing in the correct direction. I think the State of California's regulations in that matter suck, as so many other regs., but that's not an issue here, lol. Your hose then runs up to the engine compartment to the kit, and you will be amazed at the results. Your oil on oil change day will be as clean as the day you poured it in, (Remember oil vicosity is diminshed via churning of parts, but it will last longer when the heat holding carbon particles are no longer in your oil, also wearing out bearing surfaces, etc.., gone, ditto.). You will have a 5% power reduction, but your engine will last three times longer. In Cal., you should get really good fuel milage with C3H8 due to the average ambient air temps. I did. Here in Ak., I'd need to be concerned with freezing temps. causing tweak and peak problems.., so I do not do it. Anyway, go to a C3H8 dealer and see what can be done. You will not be able to go to far flung places away from C3H8 sources, though.., 'ya know, those places where you need to carry Jerry Cans of extra fuel, but hey you live in E.Bay. You won't have any problems finding this fuel.

I am aware that the EGR does more for NO emissions, but if the EGR is not working I will replace it. I will be testing the MAP sensor this evening as well.

I have never heard of C3H8. Now I am curious. Fabrication is not an issue for me.

thanks

Bubba, Thanks for the links.

C3H8..... otherwise known as Propane.....
The use of Propane is quite popular in Europe since it is much cheaper....
One of our members who now lives in England has a propane coversion on his XJ.
Vince said that he starts his Jeep on cold mornings with gasoline and then shifts over to propane once the vehicle warms up...

After replacing the parts you find that are not functioning properly; try adding 1 oz of Acetone to 5 gallons of gasoline before you go in for your SMOG check. Guaranteed to lower HC and CO levels....
Acetone breaks the surface tension of the gasoline molecules allowing for a more complete burn.
The incomplete burn of gasoline is what the SMOG stations test for.....
Been doing this since the late 90s and it works very well....

Does your 87 have a Vacuum Transducer between the EGR solenoid and the EGR?
I failed smog this year due to hi Nox, the solenoid tested OK, so did the EGR but the Transducer was not open to allow vacuum to the EGR. The Transducer operates on exhaust back pressure it requires 2-3lbs of back pressure to open. I did not see this mentioned in previous post.
A good trick is to put a chunk of dry ice in the air box this will help to bring down the combustion temperature but you should never cheat on a smog test!

the stock setup does not have a transducer but the new one I just came home with does.

My MAP sensor just passed its test. I believe the MAP sensor interfaces with the EGR flow via the ECU so possibly with a bad EGR the ECU is sending bad info.

The original EGR will not hold vacuum = bad EGR by my book.

02 sensor test is only for the heater (i have not done that) -I will

I will remember the acetone advise, but would love to get this done without "tricks". Not that I am above such, if that is what is required.

D