Help: 89 XJ Hub

A few weeks ago, I pulled the left hub off my XJ, a bit corroded but no big deal, entirely usable after a little clean up. Today, I pulled the right hub which is a lot more corroded. On thing I found, which I didn't realized on the left side, is that there's an seal on the inside - not sure what it seals against (in my case nothing as the seal is completely rotted. The hub seems to be fines - it turns a bit slowly but very smoothly. I have a couple of questions:

• Can just the seal be replaced or should I replace the entire hub?
• It seems that the seal works against the flange on the spindle (not sure that's the right name - whatever the outside end of the axle is called). In my case, on both left and right hand ends, that flange is not in great shape and looks like neither have been in contact with a seal. Can the flange be replaced or does the entire end of the axle, outboard of the u joint, need to be replaced?
• Should that area that ends up behind the seal be packed with grease?

Thanks for any advice.

Bucko

XJBucko said:

A few weeks ago, I pulled the left hub off my XJ, a bit corroded but no big deal, entirely usable after a little clean up. Today, I pulled the right hub which is a lot more corroded. On thing I found, which I didn't realized on the left side, is that there's an seal on the inside - not sure what it seals against (in my case nothing as the seal is completely rotted. The hub seems to be fines - it turns a bit slowly but very smoothly. I have a couple of questions:

• Can just the seal be replaced or should I replace the entire hub?
• It seems that the seal works against the flange on the spindle (not sure that's the right name - whatever the outside end of the axle is called). In my case, on both left and right hand ends, that flange is not in great shape and looks like neither have been in contact with a seal. Can the flange be replaced or does the entire end of the axle, outboard of the u joint, need to be replaced?
• Should that area that ends up behind the seal be packed with grease?

Thanks for any advice.

Bucko

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Hubs are sealed units and I have never seen one rebuilt. I would just replace them.

Tally_XJ said:

Hubs are sealed units and I have never seen one rebuilt. I would just replace them.

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Hi Tally:

Thanks for your note. I'm not referring to seals in the hub proper, rather I'm referring to the seal between the outer axle shaft and the hub. You might not even know that there's a seal there if you weren't looking closely, and. it's obviously not actually sealing anything.

XJBucko said:

Hi Tally:

Thanks for your note. I'm not referring to seals in the hub proper, rather I'm referring to the seal between the outer axle shaft and the hub. You might not even know that there's a seal there if you weren't looking closely, and. it's obviously not actually sealing anything.

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Yuu must be talking about that "dust seal" that is right at the axle tube between he u-joint and the tube itself? If so it does very little. There are not real seals in the outer axle tubes. The real true seals are inside the differential behind the carrier bearings. There is a company that makes "knock in" seals that use three o-rings and are lubed with marine grease. They simply install into the outer axle tube and are real seals against water and grime. Seems like its Off Road Only products? Not sure. Still they are a great investment for $100

XJBucko said:

Hi Tally:

Thanks for your note. I'm not referring to seals in the hub proper, rather I'm referring to the seal between the outer axle shaft and the hub. You might not even know that there's a seal there if you weren't looking closely, and. it's obviously not actually sealing anything.

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there is no seal, once you remove the hub itself there is nothing but a gaping hole in the knuckle.

Do you have a pic of this?

As I recollect, the outer part of the driveshaft has a flange where it meets the hub bearing, but it's not a seal, and only covers the face of the hub which has the actual seal in it. If there's a deteriorated seal, or the remains of a seal, it's part of the hub itself, and although the hub may still be all right, its life will be shortened, so don't be surprised if it fails in the near future.

10 and 16 is what I think you are talking about.

I replaced one of those around 20 years ago and darned if I remember how it was done. I do remember it wasn't a big deal and doable. The flange or slinger was just a press fit and rusted solid onto the stub shaft. They redesigned the bearings around 90 and integrated the stub shaft seal into the the hub assembly and did away with the seal flange/slinger on the stub shaft. I seem to remember needing a little glue for the seal, but the memory is real fuzzy.
Without that seal, the inside of your hub can fill up with water, mud and sand, the bearings are sealed, but rust is always an enemy. I always cover the stub shaft splines in grease and coated the inside of the hub, without the seal the grease is likely to leak out and/or maybe be flung onto the brake discs.
I also remember the seal with a replacement hub, didn't make contact with the flange/slinger on one hub and crushed the seal on the other hub. The depth of the flange/slinger needed to be adjusted, with a hub replacement, to properly contact the new seal. This may not be universal, but just a quirk of the replacement hubs I used (poor quality control or whatever).

The pre-1990 XJ's have the rebuild-able hubs and two piece knuckles. I rebuilt a set nearly 20 years ago, can't remember how they were done.

I replaced that seal without disassembling the hub, seem to remember it was just a seal to keep the inside of the hub dry and not integral to the bearings, the bearing have there own seal.
If the seal is trash anyway pop it out of there and have a look.

8Mud said:

I replaced that seal without disassembling the hub, seem to remember it was just a seal to keep the inside of the hub dry and not integral to the bearings, the bearing have there own seal.
If the seal is trash anyway pop it out of there and have a look.

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Hi Mud:

You're right: the seal I'm referring to is not one related to the bearings. The thing I don't get is what is is sealing against. There's that flange on the outer axle shaft but it doesn't actually contact the seal - at least there's no indication that it's been contacting the seal - since the axle and that flange are both spinning and the seal is on part of the hub that doesn't spin, shouldn't there be a 'wear' mark in the flange?

Matthew Currie said:

As I recollect, the outer part of the driveshaft has a flange where it meets the hub bearing, but it's not a seal, and only covers the face of the hub which has the actual seal in it. If there's a deteriorated seal, or the remains of a seal, it's part of the hub itself, and although the hub may still be all right, its life will be shortened, so don't be surprised if it fails in the near future.

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Hi Mathew:

Yes, the seal is on the hub side, at the point where the flange that you refer to is near the hub. I can't see how it's actually sealing anthing. Is that seal replacable? Is the flange replacable?

8Mud said:

I replaced that seal without disassembling the hub, seem to remember it was just a seal to keep the inside of the hub dry and not integral to the bearings, the bearing have there own seal.
If the seal is trash anyway pop it out of there and have a look.

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I'm going to try and pop the seal off to have a look.

8Mud said:

10 and 16 is what I think you are talking about.

I replaced one of those around 20 years ago and darned if I remember how it was done. I do remember it wasn't a big deal and doable. The flange or slinger was just a press fit and rusted solid onto the stub shaft. They redesigned the bearings around 90 and integrated the stub shaft seal into the the hub assembly and did away with the seal flange/slinger on the stub shaft. I seem to remember needing a little glue for the seal, but the memory is real fuzzy.
Without that seal, the inside of your hub can fill up with water, mud and sand, the bearings are sealed, but rust is always an enemy. I always cover the stub shaft splines in grease and coated the inside of the hub, without the seal the grease is likely to leak out and/or maybe be flung onto the brake discs.
I also remember the seal with a replacement hub, didn't make contact with the flange/slinger on one hub and crushed the seal on the other hub. The depth of the flange/slinger needed to be adjusted, with a hub replacement, to properly contact the new seal. This may not be universal, but just a quirk of the replacement hubs I used (poor quality control or whatever).

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Hey Mud:

#10 looks right for the flange, but #16 seems too small - maybe it's just the way it's drawn. It loooks like good news though as it seems that both the seal and the flange are replacable - now if I can only find them somwhere.

You should be able to replace the seal if you can find it, but it may be difficult to find, and you have to watch out that the bearings haven't already gotten dirty from a failed seal. I have heard of some people rebuilding their hubs, but it requires a press, and of course it also requires that you find the correct bearings and seals. Most of us just replace the whole thing.

My dim recollection of the flange/seal on the axle itself was that it wasn't very functional and not really a seal as much as a dust shield, but it's possible that on my very shabby old 87 I never saw a good one!