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Welding Help!

M

MJ3000

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Pennsylvania
Trying to replace a part of the floor pan in my XJ and I can't for the life of me seem to get a clean weld. Got a Miller AutoSet 140 a few weeks ago and have been practicing on anything from 22 gauge to 3/16" and for the most part can get very good welds with nice penetration. I just went to weld in the patch panel in the jeep (18 gauge) and it splatters and spits like crazy and will not lay a nice bead. I've tried a few different grounds and nothing helps, the welds still look like poop (literally). :banghead: Oh and it's solid .024 wire btw.

Is it just crappy jeep metal or is there some sort of trick I'm missing?
 
I don't have a welder with autoset, but one of the tricks I've had success with is the tack-tack-tack method with the heat turned up higher than you'd think is reasonable for that thickness metal. YMMV. Good luck.
 
when mine starts popping and spattering like crazy it is usually because I have too tight of a bend in the feed line going to the gun, or I forget to keep the tip at an angle and am trying to feed wire in at 90° to the surface. I don't have the welder you do so I can't speak for whether or not it works the same with yours.

Also there may be dirt grime or still some of the galvanizing that they put on under the paint over the entire jeep before it's painted on the assembly line.
 
I'm using a zinc based weld thru primer....but underneath that its bare, clean metal. And yeah I know about that seam sealer, let's just say it was not fun at all to get off.

asp.....So you think I should try taking it off auto set and cranking up the heat a bit?
 
MJ3000 said:
I'm using a zinc based weld thru primer....but underneath that its bare, clean metal. And yeah I know about that seam sealer, let's just say it was not fun at all to get off.

asp.....So you think I should try taking it off auto set and cranking up the heat a bit?
Click to expand...
That there's your problem. I've used that before and it's a real PITA. That was how I first figured out the trick of cranking the heat up to burn through it. Are you using the gray stuff that's about $8 a can? I think it's Krylon, but it might be Rustoleum... I don't even bother with it anymore.

Have you ever welded with the weld-through primer before? Try doing a couple test pieces on the side and see how it comes out with the heat a little higher before you shoot molten snot rockets at your unibody.
lowrange2 said:
While you're at it... How the hell do you get good penetration on a threaded tube insert (bung) without warping it?! AHHH!
Click to expand...
I've learned from a few of my friends on this one... 1/3 of the tube at a time and let it cool in ambient air (do not quench) so that it's not too hot to touch. If you're really impatient, I hope you have a tap to chase the threads with.
 
Last edited:
asp said:
I've learned from a few of my friends on this one... 1/3 of the tube at a time and let it cool so that it's not too hot to touch. If you're really impatient, I hope you have a tap to chase the threads with.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

I've done this for my UCA, trackbar, and tierods for my full hydro.

Didn't need a tap for any of them.

Haven't tested them yet though :laugh:
 
asp said:
That there's your problem. I've used that before and it's a real PITA. That was how I first figured out the trick of cranking the heat up to burn through it. Are you using the gray stuff that's about $8 a can? I think it's Krylon, but it might be Rustoleum... I don't even bother with it anymore.

Have you ever welded with the weld-through primer before? Try doing a couple test pieces on the side and see how it comes out with the heat a little higher before you shoot molten snot rockets at your unibody.

I've learned from a few of my friends on this one... 1/3 of the tube at a time and let it cool in ambient air (do not quench) so that it's not too hot to touch. If you're really impatient, I hope you have a tap to chase the threads with.
Click to expand...

Damn, you read that me like a book. It is that gray stuff but it's the Napa Martin Senour brand. And this is the first time I'm using it, I just assumed "weld thru" meant WELD THRU and there really wasn't any difference.

I guess I assumed wrong huh. :twak:
 
MJ3000 said:
Damn, you read that me like a book. It is that gray stuff but it's the Napa Martin Senour brand. And this is the first time I'm using it, I just assumed "weld thru" meant WELD THRU and there really wasn't any difference.

I guess I assumed wrong huh. :twak:
Click to expand...
Yeah... I found out the hard way too. It does make a very good quick drying primer though.
 
I guess I should have mentioned that....I do have gas 75/25 Ar/CO2 and usually run between 20 and 30 cfh.

Works very good and gives me clean welds in practice, I'm pretty sure though it's the weld thru primer thats giving me problems...
 
I would totally get rid of the weld through primer. No need for it. Grind all of your pieces to nice bare metal and weld away. Also I would take it off of autoset. There is also nothing wrong with feeding the wire in at 90*. Solid wire mig can either be pushed or pulled. A drag angle will give increased penetration and typically more build up. A push angle will give shallower penetration and typically a slightly less crowned bead. Your gas flow sounds fiine. Also what wire classification are you using? I.E ER70S-6.
 
there are a million and one ways to set up a machine to weld. that gas flow is way higher than i run. on any machine i use. the flowmeter is usually set around 13-15. but everyone sets things up differently.

i'm assuming that machine is 110v. if it is check your stick out. i've found with the smaller machines they can be finicky about the stick out. on my little lincoln i like to keep about 1/4 to 3/8in out from the nozzle
 
asp said:
I've learned from a few of my friends on this one... 1/3 of the tube at a time and let it cool in ambient air (do not quench) so that it's not too hot to touch. If you're really impatient, I hope you have a tap to chase the threads with.
Click to expand...


After I trashed the first 2 inserts I got smart and slowed down. I pretty much did 1/4 on one side and 1/4 on the other side. Let it cool then did the other 2 1/4s. The last 4 inserts survived.
 
lowrange2 said:
After I trashed the first 2 inserts I got smart and slowed down. I pretty much did 1/4 on one side and 1/4 on the other side. Let it cool then did the other 2 1/4s. The last 4 inserts survived.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you asked, I would have forgotten about warping and I'm welding inserts in next weekend to build my track bar, I would have been furious, lol.
:clap:
 
If you can get someone to record the sounds coming off those sub-par welds, they can be a great clue as to what needs to be adjusted. I've never worked with wire smaller than 0.030", however, I believe you need to reduce the voltage and increase wire feed speed depending on the metal you're welding.

Since it's a Miller, open up the housing and make sure you use what's shown on the chart as a starting point. If I were to guess, I think you'd need to be around 2/20 or 2/25 for 18 gauge steel with that wire (probably even 2/30).

There's some good information here:

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/MIG-GMAW-welding-basics

Regardless, one thing I've learned with MIG welding thus far is that a good weld sounds good too - if things don't sound right (namely arrhythmic popping/spattering and hissing), take a step back and look at your weld and make adjustments as needed.
 
asp said:
I've learned from a few of my friends on this one... 1/3 of the tube at a time and let it cool in ambient air (do not quench) so that it's not too hot to touch. If you're really impatient, I hope you have a tap to chase the threads with.
Click to expand...

Your old trackbar was the last one I messed up like that :gee:






x28735083275089 on ditching the "weld-thru" primer. They SUCK!!!!
 
To all that care, I ditched the weld thru primer and it was like night and day. Got it all tacked in place and ready to seam seal and paint. :yelclap:
 
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