Titan 4.6 Stroker, Dead Lifter #2

So this is what happened after the first time I got the engine from Titan. We broke the cam in improperly and this was the damage sustained:



Well, after getting a 3 angle valve job all around and having the guides and seats all replaced due to a worn valve guide in the cylinder #3 exhaust (the picture above is the number 2 cylinder, looks like it's the exhaust from the picture) and worn valve stem in the cylinder #2 exhaust, I now have a worn lifter in the number 3 intake (looks exactly like the above picture on the bottom of the lifter).

This time THEY broke it in, for 20 minutes at "2 grand" .

Any recommendations on this? This is the 2nd time and the engine only has about 8 thousand miles on it. What can repeatedly cause cam/lifter wiping like this?

So the facts from start to finish:
0. Went to Sears and got an oil change. After I got to a store and shut it off I had an explosion of coolant. Turns out they took off my radiator cap and let it sit inside the engine bay without returning it to its home. I'm never going to Sears again. They always miss something minor. I'm doing my own from now on.

1. I filled up with about 3/4 of a gallon of water temporarily (and forgot to do a flush to get the proper coolant mixture back.

2. After a trip down to FLorida and back my radiator started leaking in SC area. I kept putting water in it to try to hold it off, and it started leaking more each time. It overheated 3 times in this manner. Lesson learned (right now) is to just leave it be after the first time.

3. I had a Chrysler dealer in the area replace the radiator. I drove it from SC up to NC. I got about 140 miles before it started shaking horribly out of the blue. That must have been when the lifter collapsed on me.

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Note: The first lifter failure was in cylinder 2 (picture looks like exhaust) (improper cam-break-in procedure)
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4. The second lifter failure = cylinder 3 intake (Titan broke it in). There was a worn valve guide in the number 3 exhaust, and the valve stem in the cylinder 2 exhaust had excessive play so it had to be replaced (this is where the previous lifter that died belonged).

So based off of these facts, is there something else (bad cam-bearing?) that is causing it this time?
Was it the overheating?
Or was it broke-in improperly by Titan just enough for it to last this long. ?

Also something to note: I've been using a Fram oil filter (I just read yesterday that they're horrible for our engines for the first time). The filters all looked fine on the inside upon inspection of all the oil changes I have done (minus that one time at Sears).

Does anyone have any recommendations on cam and lifters? Mine are already ordered through the machinist at the place I am doing all of this work. I would just like to get some recommendations posted on here in case someone in the future has the same problem and would like the suggestions of those that also have strokers/rebuilt-engines and haven't had any problems.

Wayne P.~

Sorry not to be of anymore help, but I'd say the problem is that it's a Titan engine. This isn't the first one I've heard of having multiple issues, and it seems the others were similar.

...what is it that they fail to do that other places like ATK and Golen do that make theirs successful?

Also note the coolant all in the engine block. I just noticed this. Looks like they didn't drain any of it before they pulled the head off.

Real quality work at Titan.

Your going to have to break in the new cam again. Start reading up on cams, strokers ect. You will need to use a motor oil like Rotella 15w40 with zddp additive to help the cam live. Driving with low coolant was realy stupid.
Next if you believe you can have Sears,Jiffy lube or other shitty shops do YOUR maintance on your high perf engine give it up RIGHT NOW. Each of the things you mentioned could have been taken care of by YOU. READ READ READ to find out what will make it last. There are plenty of stroker sites and high perf sites but you need to take the time to read and interperate them.
Nobody will give a damn about your jeep but you.
Sorry about being so harsh but you must have alot of money to waste.
As soon as you run the engine and break in the cam change the oil again. If it ate a lifter the engine is FULL of metal. This is the first thing to give it a fighting chance. Then change it again and again and again. High quaility oil and filter nothing else. Are they coating the new cam with cam lube? Changing the oil before startup?
Good luck cause without studying this you are due for failure again.

I already know what to do in order to break the cam in, and which oils + filters to use. You're a little late in catching on to my post since I know all this now.

1. Read the section on flat-tappet engines: http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/..._your_mopar_engine/flat_tappet_camshafts.html

2. Purchase the proper break-in lubrication and use it for the first 1000 miles of engine operation (you can leave it in until the first normal oil change, but it MUST remain in the engine for the minimum 1000 miles).

3. "Pre-oil" the engine before first start up.

That should help.

IF there is a metallurgy issue with the parts Titan uses nothing is going to help with that.

There is no such thing as "too much" assembly lube.

how about checking the seat psi of the valve springs??? to much psi and it will eat cam/lifters also. valve train geometry if its damaging guides and valve seals. I would take the head to a shop that can test it thats not had any part in the build.

The head has been 100% verified solid (after a valve and all the guides/seats were replaced).

I just disassembled the engine tonight, and guess what?

IT'S NOT THE ENGINE I ORIGINALLY HAD BUILT BY TITAN.

#1. This one has been bored over .060 and is no longer safe to bore any more. The one I bought was .030, allowing for one more safe bore.

#2. It has the 4 counterweight crankshaft. I ensured I purchased the 12 counterweight due to it's durability and enhanced momentum for off-roading.

#3. The rods AREN'T the reconditioned AMC 258's I purchased that looked brand spanking new when I handed them over with my crankshaft.

#4. I need a whole new block because the number 6 cylinder wall has an outcropping hunk of metal about 3 MM wide at the bottom of the cylinder that... has scored out a portion of my piston and CRACKED it. Which leaves me two options: new block with master rebuild kit and machining to match (did the pricing tonight with the machinist and I'm looking at $1200 in machine work and the rebuild kit without the price I have to pay for a new block), OR... custom forged pistons and an unsafe .080 overbore ultimate resulting in a dead engine the first time it nears an overheat (requiring the waiting period for custom forging to take place).

So basically that leaves only one real option. These prices aren't including the new cam and head gasket set I already have either. That was another $265 I spent last week.

DO NOT BUY FROM TITAN.

For the love of God I hope all people whoever look into stroking their engine and hear of Titan Engines in Florida hear of it from me and the others on this site that have suffered.

At this point it would have been WAY cheaper to just spent $4700 on an ATK stroker AND pay for the shipping for it. Hindsight is beyond 20/20 at this point. It's down right Madam Cleo fortune-telling for those that read this and learn from me that they're no good.

Also, I don't want to hear anything about taking them to court. Anyone that has been in this boat before can probably attest to the fact that taking any place that remanufactures engines to court that the juice isn't even worth the squeeze, and that proving that it WAS there fault vs. them proving that it wasn't due to X number of factors (which can't be proven or disproven either way) results in wasted time and money anyways.

P.S. Also note that when I talked to old Chuck Manis over the phone the first time I had a failed lifter and wiped out cam (just like now) he specifically said "... we could show you all kinds of pictures and you wouldn't know what the hell you're looking at" over the phone. He knew I didn't know anything about engine mechanics at all at that point. Now that I've pulled this all apart and seen for myself that he's pulled the switcharoo on me I fully understand where he gets that phrase from.

Titan Engines is ran by a slimeball that preys on people that haven't had the misfortune of learning the hard way that you'll never get one red cent out of a warranty because they can always get around the blame due to 'error on the user.'

I recommend no one ever buy a remanufactured engine period.

The only good results I've heard for strokers period are Golen and ATK. They charge heavy, but the produce quality and reliability.

These guys are total douchebags and their service sucks beyond measure. Just ask anyone who has bought an engine from them. Even as I was there one of the last times I was down in Florida there was an old man there that was having a truck he used for work have an engine rebuilt and was getting malcontent with the results of waiting (probably being told to come back again the following week like they kept doing to me for a month, no exaggeration on the month part either).

Have you contacted them about returning you an engine full of parts that weren't yours? that's your only angle here but you'd have a tough time proving it unless you purchased the block and crank from them and can show that what you received is not what you paid for. Your first clue that you don't have a leg to stand on is you overheated it multiple times. that has nothing to do with titan's assembly or break-in procedure - you said yourself the radiator was leaking.

The wear on that lifter could be any number of things, including using oil that doesn't have enough of the additives required for flat tappet camshafts, or grit in the oil. If the oil wasn't changed after the break in procedure it's most likely due to metal particles in the oil, effectively turning it into liquid sandpaper, they should have mentioned that to you but it is a good idea to do it again anyway even if they said it was done. After a fresh build I like to change the oil every 1000 miles for the first 3 thousand, just to make sure everything gets flushed out.

I wouldn't worry too much about the coolant shown in the pic, it's impossible to completely drain the engine of coolant with it still assembled. When you pop the head off it's going to spill a little out of all the coolant passages in the head.


Good luck, did they give you any kind of warranty or guarantee that you can try to collect on?

I originally had my own crank, rods and Cam. This crap here isn't mine at all.

And no I don't have the reciepts. I purchased all of this about 3-4 years ago when I was planning the stroker before I went to Japan for 2 + years.

I'm going to call them tomorrow and tell them what I found. We'll see what they have to say about it. I don't expect anything good. If it requires sending the engine back at all it's not even worth it. I've been without a vehicle as this is my daily driver for 6 weeks now due to various reasons that wouldn't have taken place if this situation would never have presented itself.

In the end, there's no reason for that anomaly in the bottom of the number 6 cylinder that has formed a crack in my piston. Even if the lifter didn't fail, I had a catastrophic engine failure in my forecast.

It's not something that got caught in there, it's like it's a missed portion of cylinder honing. It's obviously a portion of the block itself that's just hanging out. It's not huge, but it's enough for 8 thousand miles of running like that to start cracking a piston.

I had a 3 decade veteran machinist with his own business take a look at it and that's what he thinks it is. I'll take his word and expertise over Titan's any day. He does fine quality machine work that doesn't fail. He's not a mass-engine producing company slapping parts together trying to turn a buck, he's a machinist.

He's paid to do quality pin-point work on a case by case basis that doesn't fail. He deals with paper thin clearances and knows imperfection (which is required in an engine block in order to live a long life) when he sees it.

My guess would be that portion of the piston have circulated through various parts and started taking out the cam. This is the only thing that makes sense since the cam was broke in 'properly' by them, and the bearings are all still fine.

They had me running on 5W-20 after the break in. I changed out after that to the same and ran that for about 1000 miles. Then I changed over to 10W-30 Pennzoil and added half a bottle of lucas for added protection. After that I went back to Mobil 5W-20. The "Approved for Chrysler Engines" on it caught my eye and I felt more performance out of it. I wasn't really aware of the importance of oil additives at this time either.

Mobil 5W-20 has been my choice since then.