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alcohol burning 4.0?

O

outlander

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Columbus,Ohio
Ok Ive been reading around about making a stil and producing alcohol as a fuel.I'll get straight to the point:what would be involved in making a xj run on alcohol?
Have been told that it is possible to get a permit from the ATF to produce alcohol to run a vehicle on.
Yes Ive got my tin foil hat on and get a little nervous when they talk about petroleum shortages,not to mention rumors of gas going up to $5 gallon.
Ideally Id like to be able to run either or.....

Input please.
 
You wont be able to do "either or".
You will need to make sure all your components are suitable for alcohol.
You will need new injectors.
You will need to make alot of alcohol.
 
Why not just drink all the alcohol and go on a bike ride?
 
Porch951 said:
Why not just drink all the alcohol and go on a bike ride?
Click to expand...

Because that's a terrible idea.

outlander said:
Ok Ive been reading around about making a stil and producing alcohol as a fuel.I'll get straight to the point:what would be involved in making a xj run on alcohol?
Have been told that it is possible to get a permit from the ATF to produce alcohol to run a vehicle on.
Yes Ive got my tin foil hat on and get a little nervous when they talk about petroleum shortages,not to mention rumors of gas going up to $5 gallon.
Ideally Id like to be able to run either or.....

Input please.
Click to expand...


I've thought about the same thing for the same reasons. 20 gallons of fuel in a time of crisis could be absolutely invaluable.

Think about e-85, it's 85% alcohol after all. So you'd basically need a "flex-fuel" system modified to compensate for the extra 15% alcohol, which is just a matter of adding fuel.

Simple but not easy. Basically you'd need a stand alone fuel management system. I'm not aware of a "piggy back" style system but I believe AEM and Megasquirt are popular set ups for XJ people.

Just my $.02 anyone else's opinion would be nice to hear as well :thumbup:
 
I'm not a fan of using alcohol as a motor fuel. In my opinion it sucks but I know from racer friends of mine it can be done. I'm not sure but if I remember correctly it takes roughly twice the amount of fuel to get the air/fuel ratio correct. Also alcohol doesn't burn well when its cold. Then there's the issue of corrosion. Alcohol is very bad for pretty much your entire existing fuel system. It attacks rubber,copper,aluminum and dilutes your oil if you don't stay up on maintenance. It does allow you to run high compression ratios. My managers vega was running 14 to 1. After taking all this into account I doubt you'll get much return on your investment but if you still wanted to run it you'd have to replace your whole fuel system. I'd go with a plastic fuel tank or cell, aftermaket alcohol fuel pump and specific filter,new alcohol resistent fuel and return lines, new regulator rated for alcohol,new fuel injectors rated to flow the correct amount of fuel and the biggie, a motor running at least a 12 to 1 compression ratio. I could be wrong so don't take my word as gosphel. I think it be cool to try something like this but I just think you'd be barking up the wrong tree.
 
Milford Cubicle II said:
I've thought about the same thing for the same reasons. 20 gallons of fuel in a time of crisis could be absolutely invaluable.

Think about e-85, it's 85% alcohol after all. So you'd basically need a "flex-fuel" system modified to compensate for the extra 15% alcohol, which is just a matter of adding fuel.

Simple but not easy. Basically you'd need a stand alone fuel management system. I'm not aware of a "piggy back" style system but I believe AEM and Megasquirt are popular set ups for XJ people.

Just my $.02 anyone else's opinion would be nice to hear as well :thumbup:
Click to expand...
OR...you could take that $1000 worth of electronics and purchase $1000 worth of gasoline instead.

Or you could use the $1000 as a downpayment on a diesel JK and run veggie... It would get 35mpg instead of 15 to top it off!
 
Also depends on if it's ethanol or methanol, E-85 and straight ethanol should be fairly safe for most automotive components and will probably prolong engine life and oil service intervals since there is no carbon in that fuel like there is in gasoline to contaminate the oil as well as being relatively safe for a person to consume. Methanol or wood alcohol however will damage many automotive materials and is poisonous enough it will kill a person pretty quickly.
 
I've often thought about converting to a carbed setup and loosing all the electrical stuff for simplicity and field servicability anyway..how much more feasible would this idea be with a carbed motor?I gotta say having the ability to produce your own fuel and not being at the mercy of government influences or supply and demand is very attractive in light of all the crap going on around the world now...
 
bjoehandley said:
probably would need the induction stuff off a carbed YJ and an tuned alky carb.
Click to expand...

and the ignition from a 258 as well.

Power will be way down unless you build the motor with a higher compression ratio. The good thing about alcohol is that motors don't overheat, and the octane rating is through the roof.

The bad thing is that you have to build a motor to run on it if you want any kind of performance, and that's going to kill your dual fuel dreams.

Most of the drag race guys that are using alcohol have insane compression ratios, some up to 15:1
 
Porch951 said:
Why not just drink all the alcohol and go on a bike ride?
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHAHA When I was taking my driving class this police officer was telling us how he pulled a guy over on a busy road drunk on a bike. But he said in general, If we want to ride a bike drunk we will be ok as long as we dont go on the main road!
 
Either that, or you can boost the motor. Alcohol does have an intercooling effect on the incoming air as well as being high octane. So you can run a lot of boost, but if you have some sort of controller, you can drop the boost down low enough to burn any of the gasolines, then crank it up for E-85, pure ethanol, or unleaded race gas!
 
bjoehandley said:
Either that, or you can boost the motor. Alcohol does have an intercooling effect on the incoming air as well as being high octane. So you can run a lot of boost, but if you have some sort of controller, you can drop the boost down low enough to burn any of the gasolines, then crank it up for E-85, pure ethanol, or unleaded race gas!
Click to expand...

boost might be the answer, but you'd still need to readjust the timing whenever you change the fuel.

then you get into the hassle and trouble of boosting a 4.0.

honestly for the amount of money it would take, why not buy a beater DD that gets 40+ MPG? I just sold an Aspire that had mostly new suspension, swapped trans, new brakes/tires for 700 bucks.
 
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