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full width welding

userbmx1315

userbmx1315

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Dallas, NC
called a few places to get my full width swap done. its way more expensive then my pocket can hold so. . .

whats the easiest way to get the mounts done?
looking for a way to make a type of jig.

i know the upper and lowers are supposed to have 8" of seperation. is that measuring up then over kind of like a tiangle? or is that diagonally?
 
dont worry about separation yes 8" is ideal but you can get aay with 6" what axle are you swaping in
 
I built my jig off of the pinion yoke,worked great!
 
I could make you up all the mounts you need for a decent price. All you would have to do is weld them on. There are actually a few vendors that make this type of kits. What else are you currently running under your rig right now suspension wise. Long arm? Aftermarket short arms?
 
i have the brackets just getting them set-up/on the axle is what gets me. i have RC long arms.
 
I do somewhere,I'll look.Mine was just for doing the CA mounts,you probably are looking for spring mounts also!
 
Make good use of an angle finder (for getting the mounts at the same angle on both sides, if they're precut brackets and you measure the same angle on them and they're both held tight against the tube, they will end up at the same height) and ruler / measuring stick and you will be fine. Remember the scale you're working on, and that adjustable/long arms will soak up a whole hell of a lot more imprecision than you would expect.
 
yea. upper (drivers). coil buckets and lowers.

i know the coil buckets are supposed to be level. how do i figure out what to set the pinion angle to?
 
Ideally, whatever gets you the best caster and pinion angle at the same time. The factory aimed for pinion angle because they had the inner Cs mounted at the angle they wanted, or close anyways, and people notice vibes more than they notice caster being a little low.

If you're up for cutting loose and spinning the inner Cs, you can get the best of both worlds. Cut the inner Cs loose, make sure they spin, figure out what ride height is going to be with your coils, replace coils with some sort of solid jig, put it all together under the rig with the weight on jackstands and the axle held up against the fake coils (I'd suggest PVC pipe of the proper diameter) with a few jacks, turn it till the pinion is at the angle you want, tack on the perches and control arm brackets, measure how much you need to turn the inner Cs and which direction, WRITE IT DOWN, remove from vehicle, turn inner Cs and fully weld everything.

I've never done this though - it's just how I would do it, how it makes sense to me. If someone says I'm wrong, listen to them.
 
userbmx1315 said:
i know the upper and lowers are supposed to have 8" of seperation. is that measuring up then over kind of like a tiangle? or is that diagonally?
Click to expand...
When the word "separation" is used in suspension it typically means vertical, the distance perpendicular to the ground. The greater the better, to a point obviously. Do some searching, there is a TON of good (and some bad) information out there on the topic.

You don't need a jig to weld on control arm mounts. If you are any good with a tape measure you can get them spot on. The key is to measure from several different points.

I think the biggest thing is to use properly sized parts. Things like 3/4" or 7/8" rod ends have no place on a LCA, IMO. Maybe on a street car, but not for what abuse they'll see during real wheeling.
 
not going to cut the C's my jeep right now has bad caster already so idk how much it'd interupt the new angle.
what angle should my pinion be at?
 
userbmx1315 said:
not going to cut the C's my jeep right now has bad caster already so idk how much it'd interupt the new angle.
what angle should my pinion be at?
Click to expand...
u gonna be running lockout hubs? i wouldnt worry about pinion angle get your caster set
 
Ideally, the same angle as the front driveshaft. Sorry I don't have a hard number for you.

EDIT: Rob has a great point there.
 
userbmx1315 said:
not going to cut the C's my jeep right now has bad caster already so idk how much it'd interupt the new angle.
what angle should my pinion be at?
Click to expand...
No one is going to be able to tell you what the angle is should be. It is going to depend on your particular setup.
ROBZ95Xj said:
u gonna be running lockout hubs? i wouldnt worry about pinion angle get your caster set
Click to expand...
I would, to a point. You don't want the pinion pointing to low/high when flexed out binding the driveshaft. Other than that, get your caster correct first.
 
userbmx1315 said:
ok, i'm going to give it a try. so-far this post has helped alot.
Click to expand...
Tack everything in place, connect the drive shaft, and move the axle around a bit. That'll really show you what you have to work with and what, if anything, you've got to change.
 
what caster did everyone else go with? caster is measured off the ball jouin surface right?
 
userbmx1315 said:
what caster did everyone else go with? caster is measured off the ball jouin surface right?
Click to expand...
I believe the factory castor setting is 5-7 degrees.
It's going to really depend on how well you can marry the pinion angle and castor on your axle, it is going to be a trade-off. Without cutting and turning the C's you'll never get both to be ideal.

My setup won't really help you, but I'm running 2.5-3 degrees. I measured mine off the kingpin seats.
 
kastein said:
Ideally, whatever gets you the best caster and pinion angle at the same time. The factory aimed for pinion angle because they had the inner Cs mounted at the angle they wanted, or close anyways, and people notice vibes more than they notice caster being a little low.

If you're up for cutting loose and spinning the inner Cs, you can get the best of both worlds. Cut the inner Cs loose, make sure they spin, figure out what ride height is going to be with your coils, replace coils with some sort of solid jig, put it all together under the rig with the weight on jackstands and the axle held up against the fake coils (I'd suggest PVC pipe of the proper diameter) with a few jacks, turn it till the pinion is at the angle you want, tack on the perches and control arm brackets, measure how much you need to turn the inner Cs and which direction, WRITE IT DOWN, remove from vehicle, turn inner Cs and fully weld everything.

I've never done this though - it's just how I would do it, how it makes sense to me. If someone says I'm wrong, listen to them.
Click to expand...
The last one I did I just read up on how much of a change in angle would be required and cut the "c"s loose and rotated them that many degrees ( I think it was 5*, it depends on your lift height, this one was figured on 5.5" lift) and then welded them back on. Take your time and measure 3 times before you weld those things back.
 
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