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Need some help with headlights

XJ_holmes

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Pell City, AL
My 96 is in the body shop right now getting a brand new paint job. while its in for the week i was going to order some parts so that when i get it back i can get to work on making it how it should be. one of the first things i would like to address is my headlights. as of now when its dark out and im in the city i may as well have no headlights. so ive been looking into some hid conversions for the stock headlights and two fog lights that are mounted on my bumper. my question is who can tell me what the shape of the stock headlight is for my 96 cherokee sport? also any help or recommendations on where i should get this kit would be great thanks for all the help i appreciate it.

-Ian
 
My 96 is in the body shop right now getting a brand new paint job. while its in for the week i was going to order some parts so that when i get it back i can get to work on making it how it should be. one of the first things i would like to address is my headlights. as of now when its dark out and im in the city i may as well have no headlights. so ive been looking into some hid conversions for the stock headlights and two fog lights that are mounted on my bumper. my question is who can tell me what the shape of the stock headlight is for my 96 cherokee sport? also any help or recommendations on where i should get this kit would be great thanks for all the help i appreciate it.

-Ian

Anything that will replace the 6052 (sealed beam) or H6054 (halogen) should work - I believe the measurement standard is "200m/m Rectangular".

I am very happy with my H4 conversions that I've done. I've used both the Hella Vision Plus (US DoT-approved) and Hella E-Code (ECE approved) lamps with excellent results. Bulbs used in both have been Hella Super White capsules - my wife's rig got the 55W/80W bulb, Vision Plus bowl, and a homebrew wiring harness. My rig got the E-codes, 80W/130W bulbs, and a homebrew wiring harness.

I do prefer the sharper cutoff of the E-codes, coupled with the "filled beam" at both dip and full beam. Even running double (or better) the power and light output of the OEM bulbs, I don't get any grief from oncoming drivers - and my visual range has increased significantly!

Source parts for the upgrade from Susquehanna Motorsports - www.rallylights.com. Expect to pay about $40 each for the bowls (either way,) and order the bulbs you want. The bowls will come with 55W/65W (OEM-equivalent) bulbs, so just keep those for spares.

I'd considered the HID conversion, but they're not quite common enough for parts - I used standard goodies for my conversion (DIN relays, ATO/ATC fuses, H4 bulbs,) which means it's easy to keep a spares box stocked. I'm huge on common/standard parts!
 
i looked at the conversion for the headlights you've mentioned and i seem to remember reading somewhere that i could use an H4 bulb in my stock headlamp. i dont know if this is true but if it is i would really like to order the hid conversion because i like the brighter light and more light output. StumpXJ had tried to help me before with an auxiliary light setup and i really liked the light output his roof mounted lights put out. im looking for the same kind of set up in my headlights for now and eventually in a light bar mounted on the roof.
 
i looked at the conversion for the headlights you've mentioned and i seem to remember reading somewhere that i could use an H4 bulb in my stock headlamp. i dont know if this is true but if it is i would really like to order the hid conversion because i like the brighter light and more light output. StumpXJ had tried to help me before with an auxiliary light setup and i really liked the light output his roof mounted lights put out. im looking for the same kind of set up in my headlights for now and eventually in a light bar mounted on the roof.

The OEM headlamps (H6054) are a halogen-filled sealed beam arrangement, and are totally disposable. The lense is moulded, and the reflector is silvered glass.

From what I've seen, the Hella H4 replacements have a polished (stainless?) steel bowl, and a cut-and-ground glass lense. Since they're meant to last a good while longer, they're naturally made rather better. This makes sense.

However, if you want to go to a "replaceable bulb" arrangement - of whatever sort - you will have to convert your OEM bulbs to a housing that accepts a removable bulb. This isn't difficult - both of the Hella replacements I mentioned will drop right in place - but it is required.
 
that makes a lot more sense. i never knew that the housings were completely considered disposable. so your saying if i changed the housing over to a more permanent style that accepted a different bulb that is a removable bulb then i would also have the option to either go with a different wattage bulb or to do the hid conversion with the bulb and ballast? thanks for the info all of this really helps

-Ian
 
that makes a lot more sense. i never knew that the housings were completely considered disposable. so your saying if i changed the housing over to a more permanent style that accepted a different bulb that is a removable bulb then i would also have the option to either go with a different wattage bulb or to do the hid conversion with the bulb and ballast? thanks for the info all of this really helps

-Ian

Yes, Exactly what he is saying.

I went with Autopal e-code coversions which aren't the best but get the Job done. I ordered an HID kit from DDMtuning with Hi/Lo and 5000k bulbs but i think 4500k would have been a better choice. I also ordered an upgraded harness off of ebay. I have $140 or so wrapped up in my lighting(not including the Lightforces on the bumper) and its bright and has a bit of glare which I can deal with. I get flashed on occasion so I will probably aim them down a little bit and see if that helps.
 
im pretty sure that is the hid kit i was looking into. so you recommend 4500k? i was thinking the 5000 would be better. also where did you get the autopal conversions headlamps you mentioned and what bulb do they take. the bulb is important to me for which hid kit i order. thanks for the info im trying to figure this all out as soon as possible so all the parts are here by the time my jeep gets back from paint.

-Ian
 
that makes a lot more sense. i never knew that the housings were completely considered disposable. so your saying if i changed the housing over to a more permanent style that accepted a different bulb that is a removable bulb then i would also have the option to either go with a different wattage bulb or to do the hid conversion with the bulb and ballast? thanks for the info all of this really helps

-Ian

Correct.

If you go to a removable housing that takes an H4 bulb, you are now replacing just the inner bulb, and not the whole bowl (which is ecologically friendly anyhow. And a bit cheaper. And you get more options.)

I'm sure that, by now, there are HID bulbs that fit in place of an H4 - since it's a fairly standard dip/full beam bulb. Check into that, and you can be setting yourself up for your HID upgrade, piecemeal. It's a possibility!

If you go with a bulb that requires more power (higher wattage,) you'll want to make or purchase a headlamp relay harness. This will shorten the power path between the battery and headlamps, will use a heavier-gage wire than stick, and will take the load off of your headlamp switch (since it now just needs .5-1W to trip the relay, vice the 110W/130W it normally has to deal with. Amps = Watts/Volts, so you can calculate the current being handled by the switch easily.)
 
ok now that i understand the whole housing situation you can help me better understand the power talk. i want to know exactly what im getting into before i start ripping parts out and trying to shove new ones in. the kit im looking to get is a 35 watt or 55 watt kit. you mentioned the watts and volts and im kinda confused now. if you could help me better understand how the hid conversion is set up i would appreciate it. it seems that you are more partial to the halogen bulb replacement but i tried that on the car i had before my jeep and it never worked out for me so im gunna try out the hid kit to see how well they work.

so if you know how could you please try to explain to me how hid kits work and how they are set up?

thanks
-Ian
 
ok now that i understand the whole housing situation you can help me better understand the power talk. i want to know exactly what im getting into before i start ripping parts out and trying to shove new ones in. the kit im looking to get is a 35 watt or 55 watt kit. you mentioned the watts and volts and im kinda confused now. if you could help me better understand how the hid conversion is set up i would appreciate it. it seems that you are more partial to the halogen bulb replacement but i tried that on the car i had before my jeep and it never worked out for me so im gunna try out the hid kit to see how well they work.

so if you know how could you please try to explain to me how hid kits work and how they are set up?

thanks
-Ian

Bear with me - I may screw up a couple of details here, and I hope someone will correct me if I do (else I won't learn anything either!)

Old "sealed beam" headlamps are just regular incandescent bulbs, kinda like in your room lamp. The use a tungsten filament that gets heated up to the point of incandescense (therefore "incandescent,") which is why the bulb gets so hot. Higher watt ratings mean more current flows through the filament to heat it up, which means more light (and more heat!)

Newer "halogen" lamps are simply incandescent bulbs that, instead of having a vacuum drawn in the envelope, are first evacuated of air and then filled with a halogen gas at low pressure. The halogen is effectively inert, but it allows for the particles that are blown off of the filament to be redeposited - this both gives a purer white light and helps the filament last longer.

Just for the sake of completeness, let's not forget the "noble" lamps - these are tungsten-filament bulbs that are evaucated and filled with a noble (chemically inert) gas, typically xenon. You don't often find these in automotive applications, but they are relatively common in the high-performance flashlight world (like SureFire and Streamlight. My G2Z has a xenon bulb, and I've been using the same bulb for the last six or seven years. Excellent light, and damned good service life!)

NB: All of the previous use a tungsten filament that gets heated enough to begin producing light as a byproduct; cf. "incandescence."

HID - or "High Intensity Discharge" lamps are, as I recall, tiny arc lights. They don't have filaments in them - they have a couple of small electrodes with an "air gap" in between the points, and an electric arc produces the light. It is actually possible to have an illuminating arc that requires less current (from the source) than a filament does - but it requires a much higher voltage than the normal 12VDC. I think they run up around 20-25kV, but don't hold me to it. That's what the "ballast" for the HID lamp does - it's an oscillator that feeds a step-up transformer (transformers cannot work when fed DC voltage, since they depend on variable magnetic fields to function!) to kick the 12VDC up to around 20,000VAC or so. This is then fed to the arc to light it off.

Just to even things out, let's say that you get an HID kit that requires 24kV for the arc. This 24kV will be provided by the ballast, and this is made from the nominal 12VDC, and we'll figure a 36W draw for the ballast (none of these values are strictly accurate - merely illustrative.) Recall from your basic electronics class - if you took one - that all values in a closed electrical circuit are mathematically related. If you require a refresher - or want to see it for the first time - go to Wiki and look up Ohm's Law and Watt's Law. I'll wait.

Make more sense now? Here comes the math (I'll try to keep it simple.)

Amperes = Watts/Volts. We're working with a closed system at this point, although it's fed by the alternator. Again, we're simplifying here. Thus:

36W/12V = 3A.

So, we will have three amperes running through the ballast. Three amperes feed the arc in the HID lamp assembly. But, we've kicked it up by a few orders of magnitude - 24,000/12 = 2,000. Current of the actual arc (theoretically) can therefore be found one of two ways:

36W/24,000V = 0.0015A
3A/2,000 (voltage multiplication factor) = 0.0015A

As I've told my tutees, "Highway 1, I-5, and US 101 will all get you to LA - as long as you follow the rules." Anyhow, this shows how little current is needed to feed a simple illuminating arc (you need much more current for welding simply because you are melting metal - and the higher current makes for a much more energetic arc. It's not so much the visible light that will damage your retina - the UVA and UVB generated by the arc will get to your eyes much more quickly. The UVA and UVB are also what causes the "welder's tan" at the neckline and between the gauntlet and sleeve, for short-sleeve welders.

Let's compare the 0.0015A (yes - that's 1.5 milliamperes, or one and one-half thousandths of an ampere!) that lights up the arc to what you get for the halogen - assuming an OEM dip beam:

55W/12V ~=4.583A - or about four and seven-twelfths of an ampere. (NB: In both cases - arc lamp and halogen/tungsten filament - the current given is per bulb.)

The problem is that HID depends on high voltage to make the arc happen, which is why you can't get by without a ballast. If you lose a ballast, you lose a lamp until you can get a new one - are you willing to carry a spare ballast?

The filament bulb may require more current, but it's at the system-standard 12VDC. And, a single spare bulb is much smaller than a single spare ballast (I think HID ballasts are about the size of two packs of smokes, by now.)

I just happen to like using a conventional filament bulb because I am, as I said before, big on standard parts you can get anywhere. I can walk into any parts house in America and grab a regular 55W/65W H4 halogen bulb without any trouble at all - and I've got a spare pair of bulbs in with my spare fuses and relays anyhow (and spare IP bulbs. And ...)

This is also why I settled on using the ANL-format fuse with my fuse kits, instead of getting the industry-standard MEGA fuse or using the AGU high-current fuse. The ANL can be had at autosound shops, which are easier to find than industrial electric shops (although you can usually find them cheaper from me!) And, the AGU is a glass tube (like an oversized AGC,) and I didn't think it would be rugged enough to survive use in the environments we find ourselves in. Ergo, ANL (all of my kits now come with two fuses anyhow.)

If I add accessories to my truck, I use ATO/ATC fuses (just like the vehicle itself uses) and DIN relays (ditto.) I buy both in bulk anyhow - although I had to start keeping MINI fuses around (that Suzuki I got for my wife is a decent car, but it's screwing up my logistics! Something else odd - inline six, about 150ci displacement. Seven-quart oil sump! Wha?!? The 242ci I6 in my truck only takes six quarts! At least with converting to synthetic that seven quarts is giving me 15-18kmiles service now. I may have to add a bypass microfilter, since that would allow me to run oil even longer!) I use standard Delphi Weatherpack connectors (just like you find in the trucks wiring already,) and I'll wrap the wiring up with convolute tubing - I like my added stuff to look like the factory put it there whenever I can, and I want to be able to use spare parts already on hand!

Now, if I can find an HID kit that uses standard H4-form bulbs, I may install it. Then, I'd just leave the wiring for the halogens in place and pull the relays - stow it all in the spares box. That way, if I lose a ballast, I'm not out a lamp.

You might also see "colour temperature" as a specification when looking at HID kits - for more information on that, look up "black body emitter." It's not the easiest thing in the world to explain, and I know I'd screw it up right now.

For emissions, they're measured two ways - either candlepower (typically cp) and lumens (typically l - lower-case letter "L".) Difference between the two? Picture a pile of sand on a table - just a little one. The height of the pile is the measurement.
- Candlepower would be the height of the very highest grain of sand in the pile.
- Lumens - luminous flux - is a weighted measurement of the entire pile of sand.

Measurements in lumens are a more accurate comparison of light intensity - "brightness" - than candlepower. You probably won't see this very often with headlamps and suchlike; but it's possible, so you should have some idea what they're talking about.

The Wiki articles on these subjects seem to be fairly free of apocrypha. I don't consider Wiki a truly authoritative source - it's more of a "jumping-off point" for directing deeper research - but most of the basic scientific articles are useful as a quick-reference. If you want deeper information, I would suggest Engineer's Edge instead (Google them.)
 
that all made sense, which is a good thing. i completely understand why you use the H4 bulb it makes sense to be able to just walk into a store and fix your problem. i appreciate all the time and information you have given me and i agree with everything you have said. for me carrying an extra ballast isnt a problem. my jeep is used for street more often then not so i dont carry around many spare parts anyway and if i do i have them all at home and i can always use one of the family's spare cars if the replacement parts take way to long to get to me.

taking all of this into consideration i think i am going to first switch the housing to an open beam which will allow me to use whichever option i use(either halogen or HID). i will then order the hid kit i have been researching and install the ballasts and bulbs and all the other stuff. once its in if it ever dies on me i will immediately take it all out and try the H4 bulb approach.

Once again thank you for all the info. once all of this little project is done ill be sure to post some pics so everyone can see and critique whether or not i did ok.

Thanks
-Ian
 
...Now if only a stand up guy from this forum would start selling a high quality headlight harness I would buy one ; ) .
 
make your own, its a headlight harness, not a rocket ship.
go jeep has a step by step writeup, if you cant fallow it, you just may be just like me.
 
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make your own, its a headlight harness, not a rocket ship.
go jeep has a step by step writeup, if you cant fallow it, you just may be retarded.

I know several people who have lost their car recently due to electrical fires, it has made me cautious in that area now.
 
...Now if only a stand up guy from this forum would start selling a high quality headlight harness I would buy one ; ) .

Sorry - I've been getting repairs done of my wife since my MIL punched her ticket (right hip THA, right knee MUA, right shoulder rotator cuff & partial thickness bicep tear,) and I think we're done with the orthopaedic surgery for the near future.

I hope.

I want to get mine going as well - I just haven't had the capability to do so lately. I'm workin' on it! I'll be workin' even harder once I have time and funding to devote to R&D again...
 
im pretty sure that is the hid kit i was looking into. so you recommend 4500k? i was thinking the 5000 would be better. also where did you get the autopal conversions headlamps you mentioned and what bulb do they take. the bulb is important to me for which hid kit i order. thanks for the info im trying to figure this all out as soon as possible so all the parts are here by the time my jeep gets back from paint.

-Ian
Please don't put a kit in your headlights
this was my soloution
http://go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoBiXenonProjectors.htm
not for everyone but I wanted real HID and not an imitation.
retrofit%20(17a)_small.jpg
 
Strange, I thought Xenon bulbs were inreasingly the norm now (I'm sure all those + 30, 50, 60, 90 & now 100% are) - but then I didn't think anyone who has any interest in such things was still using 55/60's.

Of course this may be a local market thing, because in Europe we can't get those "Farboy" type H4's i.e. those with dip beams that are higher wattage than the mains (sorry, his!).
 
make your own, its a headlight harness, not a rocket ship.
go jeep has a step by step writeup, if you cant fallow it, you just may be just like me.

Or read the write up I did several years ago and look at the photos.

Writeup:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=124672&postcount=16

Photos:
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/andysteiner/off road/Upgrades/2003-12-30 Headlight/


In the space of 18 months, I burned out 3 Silverstar headlamps. Finally said time to upgrade, so I bought Hella E Code housings and X51 Fatboy bulbs. No problems in five years.


And I'll say it again, if you have a choice to buy from and support a NAXJA vendor, please do so.
 
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