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Stock VS' Aftermarket shafts...Experiences

D

Deadman 94 xj

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
This might seem like a dumb noob question but that's because I'm a dumb noob :D

For those locked up front and actually wheel, when did you decide to upgrade? Experiences? Are aftermarket worth the weight in gold?

I've been wheeling for quite some time now on 35's, D30, locked rear, 4.88's. I just locked the front and this is where my issue is.

I always carry spares and have become very good at changing shafts on the trail. I guess what it comes down to is that I'm tired of breaking shafts. Mostly U-joint failures. The last two times out I poped a u-joint doing nothing stupid. No binding, no spin, no real skinny pedal use.

Where I'm at right now is where I'm sure a lot of guys are with trying to decide whether or not to keep sinking $$ into the D30.

Thanks!
 
I would first look at what type of U-joint failure you are experiencing since you keep breaking joints and not shafts. Some things to consider

1) Are you using spicer 760x u-joints. They are stronger than the 297 u-joints, and spicers are stronger than other non high-dollars joints (CTM;s, ect)
2) Did you modify the shafts to accept a full circle clip? or have you tacked the caps of the joint in place.


jim
 
Thanks. I've done none of that. The first break was a stock spicer u-joint that's seen a bit of abuse. I'm not sure if it was 5-760 or 297. Whatever comes in a 97 shaft. Probably 297.

The second faliure was a Napa (Super Strength Precision :D ) joint that I only put in because I was in a hurry and finding spicers local is dificult unless you want to spend $71 at the dealer. The third faliure was also a fresh Napa joint. Whatever you guys do, don't buy those joints.

I see your point though. It's just that the whole experience has me thinking about upgrading so I'm not so worried about it the next time out. 760's are in the mail though ;)
 
foxwar71 said:
real spicer 760's and full circle clips in stocker shafts. after that youll blow ring gears first
Click to expand...

Excuse my ignorance but when you say "real" 760's, is that meant to imply that there are knockoffs out there that we should be aware of? If so, can you or anybody else recommend a reputable online retailer?
 
Not that I know of. Just get you a set of 760 Spicer joints, use full circle clips, or just tack weld the caps in place like I did. It is cheap piece of mind, that you won't spit a cap and trash your axle shafts. I ran 35's and 36's locked on a D30 for a long time using that method, and had really good luck with it. Now I upgraded to a D44 front, but I still welded the caps.
 
When Deadman 94 xj mentioned "real" spicer 760 joints he was most likely steering you away from imitation joints like the Napa brand joints that you were breaking. it is also important to note that most chain autoparts stores will not differentiate between 297 and 760 spicer joints even if they carry the spicer brand. They will be listed as equivelant parts to each other, but the 760's are much stronger. I belive I purchased mine from Quadratec, I'm sure that some NAXJA sponsers sell them also.



jim
 
Deadman 94 xj said:
Excuse my ignorance but when you say "real" 760's, is that meant to imply that there are knockoffs out there that we should be aware of? If so, can you or anybody else recommend a reputable online retailer?
Click to expand...


just dont get any of the parts store's version, such as precisions or brute force.
 
Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

I'm going to go ahead and replace the joints in both my spares and in the shafts that are in it. I may do the full clips if I can get a 4.5" angle grinder wheel in there. If not, they'll get tacked in place.

I'd always heard about how well the D30 holds up under pressure but after this kept happening I started to really doubt my next trip out. Lesson learned.

If it pops again than I know I'm doing something wrong and I'll take it from there.

Thanks again.
 
foxwar71 said:
real spicer 760's and full circle clips in stocker shafts. after that youll blow ring gears first
Click to expand...

Very untrue. You'll blow the ears off the Spicer yokes before you'll break the u-joint, in most cases.



To the OP, yes, chromo shafts in a D30 are easily worth the investment......which is why so many have already done it. Even with Spicer 760x joints snapped ringed into stock shafts you'll rip the ears off the Spicer shafts. Chromo shafts with snapped ringed 760x joints are pretty strong, because now the joint becomes the weak link again instead of the shaft, and if you get chromo joints then it's all pretty damn strong and possible to break the ring and pinion first. Tons of people in Jeeps, XJ's, TJ's, YJ's, ZJ's, wheel with a D30 and chromo front shafts. Just do it, and quit having to change shafts all the time.
 
Goatman said:
Very untrue. You'll blow the ears off the Spicer yokes before you'll break the u-joint, in most cases.
Click to expand...


I know this has been discussed before, but this seems to be not as untrue as you believe. The OP is located in the Northest region and thats be the type of terrain ive seen ring gears/carriers/lockers all break before having any problems with 760's/full circles/stock shafts.
 
I can see where the ears will deform on the stock shafts and I can also see, and have seen, ring gears go leaving the driver confused. Either way I'm going to run stock shafts and put the 760's in and see how well they hold up, with the snap rings.

With the ease that the precision joints poped, I should be able to tell real quick if this is worth the effort. If I'm still poping shafts every trip out than it's 60 time :D.

Either way I need to locate a good set of passenger side stock shafts because my ears are deformed :(
 
I've got Alloy USA 4340 shafts and Yukon Super Joints in my 30 now and after wheeling lots of black trails and competing in the last RCROCS interclub comp so far no breakage. I went with this set up after I started breaking a shaft everytime out at Rausch. I wheel on 35's also and it has just become clear to me that stock shafts and joints aren't going to cut it anymore and it was time to upgrade. With the 35's and low gear ratio/crawl ratio the extra torque is just too much for the stock stuff to deal with for very long. Yeah full circle clips will help but the amount of torque created versus the strength of the metal just doesn't add up anymore. Besides breaking shafts on the trail sucks and nobody wants to waste their short wheeling day waiting around for you fix your junk all the time. It's worth it just to not be "that guy" everytime.
 
Last edited:
foxwar71 said:
I know this has been discussed before, but this seems to be not as untrue as you believe. The OP is located in the Northest region and thats be the type of terrain ive seen ring gears/carriers/lockers all break before having any problems with 760's/full circles/stock shafts.
Click to expand...

Well then, you've qualified both of our comments, haven't you? :)

If the guy is breaking that many shafts, he should upgrade. Unless he just likes to change shafts (which he just said he's getting tired of doing) and all his wheeling buddies don't mind that he breaks all the time. In the west, we've seen too many stock shafts break to even count, with snapped ringed u-joints. The OP asked if he should just be done with the D30. Well, if he's going consider spending money on another axle, then he can afford to get chromo shafts for the D30. Also, if he upgrades to a D44 then he's not getting stronger axle yokes (same as a D30) unless he builds the D44 with chromo shafts...........so just get the chromo shafts.
 
robsjeepxj said:
I've got Alloy USA 4340 shafts and Yukon Super Joints in my 30 now and after wheeling lots of black trails and competing in the last RCROCS interclub comp so far no breakage. I went with this set up after I started breaking a shaft everytime out at Rausch. I wheel on 35's also and it has just become clear to me that stock shafts and joints aren't going to cut it anymore and it was time to upgrade. With the 35's and low gear ratio/crawl ratio the extra torque is just too much for the stock stuff to deal with for very long. Yeah full circle clips will help but the amount of torque created versus the strength of the metal just doesn't add up anymore. Besides breaking shafts on the trail sucks and nobody wants to waste their short wheeling day waiting around for you fix your junk all the time. It's worth it just to not be "that guy" everytime.
Click to expand...


I've become VERY fast at changing them though :D

No but seriously it's a pain to keep doing this. I just figured you read all the time about guys wheeling their junk and not having an issue for X amount of years. Not in my experience.

I'm never the only one to break when we go out but I agree, I don't want to be "that guy". I've got some decisions to make I guess.
 
I'm "usually" not either except the whole stock shaft thing the last few time before I upgraded. I can swap a shaft in maybe 30 minutes or so unless like the last time the shaft breaks at the spines and won't come out with a magnet. Then your in for a complete tear down. That was what finally pushed me over the edge. The spicer joint with the snap ring was stronger than the splines themselves now so the splines broke. That really really sucked. Of course it was cold as hell and fingers were frozen by the time I was done. I took like 2 hours to pull the shafts, pull the carrier, get all the pieces out and put it all back together. Did I mention that that sucked? Well it did.
 
robsjeepxj said:
I'm "usually" not either except the whole stock shaft thing the last few time before I upgraded. I can swap a shaft in maybe 30 minutes or so unless like the last time the shaft breaks at the spines and won't come out with a magnet. Then your in for a complete tear down. That was what finally pushed me over the edge. The spicer joint with the snap ring was stronger than the splines themselves now so the splines broke. That really really sucked. Of course it was cold as hell and fingers were frozen by the time I was done. I took like 2 hours to pull the shafts, pull the carrier, get all the pieces out and put it all back together. Did I mention that that sucked? Well it did.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good time :D

I hear ya, thanks for the honest feedback. I'm going to set up the jeep fund for aftermarket shafts. I may even spring a few hundred extra and go for the RCVs. What's another couple hundred at that point.

My reasoning for trying out the joints in the stock shafts is because I was running cheap Napa joints and that's where my failures were. I never actually snapped a shaft. The U-joints went first. Like I said, the first one went like butter and I wasn't even doing anything stupid! The second one took out the outer ears when the joint went. The stupidity of that one is debatable. The amount of force it took to break is what has me a little stumped. I watch guys beat the piss out of their 44's and HP30s and hold up great but there I was, slowly climbing up a rock, tires straight ahead, and I hear it pop.

I know if the joints didn't fail first, the next link could have been the shaft. I just wonder how much more I could have gotten out of it with the better joints in there.

Either way though, stock shafts aren't going to cut it.
 
Once you break a joint in any shaft the ears on the yokes can get a little stretched out making the easier to break the next time. Everytime I've broken a shaft except for the last time it's always be the ears (I've never run anything but spicers and never had one fail) so that that tells me the shafts aren't strong enough. I do like the design of the RCV shafts but don't know anybody who actually owns them or has any real wheeling experience with them yet. They do look sweet though.
 
I only know of two. A guy on here and a friend of mine. The friend is wheeling a zj buggy (V8) on 36" Irocs. He has nothing but good things to say about them.

I don't know what the strength benefts would be between them and what you're running. Not much I'd imagine. I do like the no bind factor though.
 
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