Trying to fit a front Wagoneer Dana44? Pics

Hello guys,

I'm trying to swapp my front Dana30 to a Dana44 unit. I'm tired of breaking my ring-pinion in this reiforced Dana30 I have.

So, I was wondering if this Wagoneer Dana44 coudl work out in my project swapp, by cutting the tubes and reduce the lenght to Dana30 specs, cut the "C"s of the Dana30 and weld them back to the Dana44 tubes, although, the Dana44 tubes are wider, not sure if the "C"s of the Dana30 will fit even maching the center hole so the Dana44 tubes will fit?

Also judging by the pics, is this a reverse cut type? Not sure about that. I think it has a 2.73 ratio or so, very long.

It got a 49.5 inch long.

I'm planing to use:


ARB
4,10 ratio
RVC CV joint axles 30 splines
Dana30 30 splines bearing hubs
Dana30 "C" and all the knuckle brakes stuff.

Thanks for any input.

First, i'm going to provide a very helpful/useful link to you that contains the most amount of information regarding Dana 44 axles and what not.

http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html

Read through this link. It will answer most if not all of your questions when it comes to Dana 44 shtuff.

Next, Jeep Wagoneer axles are low pinion housings. So, what you have is going to require a standard cut set of gears. In regards to the front application, low pinions are usually less sought after than high pinions housings. A high pinion housing is going to be stronger than a low pinion in the front. That's not to say this swap has never been done, but in terms of strength, there are better options.

Secondly, you wouldn't gain much from a 44 if you were to use Dana 30 parts from the Inner C out. Essentially, it's a bigger R&P, and you'd keep the 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern, that's it. You'd be missing out on potential high steer, better brakes, etc. In respect to this, however, it has been done before. I use to have a link to a thread where someone did this, but deleted it as it was no use to me. Why wouldn't you want to utilize all the Dana 44 parts?

In addition, a fully assembled Jeep Wagoneer Dana 44 is only slightly longer than a fully assembled stock Dana 30. You'd be going through a lot of trouble, just to lose an inch or two. A lot of folks that build high pinion front Dana 44's narrow to Wagoneer specifications, so that it's close to stock.

hth

Scott

Bellavista did this in the pirate4x4 tech faq, I'm too lazy to get the link

Hi Scott,

thanks for the link (I'm still reading it). As for why I wanted to keep the 5x4.5 bolt pattern and Dana30 C outter stuff and brakes is because my 87 steering knuckle or caliper base is two piece and it's modified to accept the WJ twin piston caliper with redrilled WJ rotors.

Now, if I go direct swapp, only adding the control arms base (welding them on the axles and such things) Then I will have a higher offset wheels/tires in the front than the back, but adding spacers to the rear isn't the best solution isn't it?

I think this Waggy axle is about 4-4.5inches longer over stock Dana30 axle.

Also, I will have to use/keep the manual hubs right? That's something that I would like to avoid, specially that down here yuo can't park any 4x4 with manual hubs because the thiefs has some demand on them but that's another story.

What would be another possible Dana44 axle or donor for my XJ?

Thanks

Get a Cherokee dana 44. They come in some South American Cherokee's. I'm not sure what countries but I'm thinking Argentina. I'm sure someone here will chime in and correct me. I think they are also low pinion but it would be a bolt in deal.

xray said:

Get a Cherokee dana 44. They come in some South American Cherokee's. I'm not sure what countries but I'm thinking Argentina. I'm sure someone here will chime in and correct me. I think they are also low pinion but it would be a bolt in deal.

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Better chance of winning the lottery. Unless you have a line on some and keeping us all in the dark?

xray said:

Get a Cherokee dana 44. They come in some South American Cherokee's. I'm not sure what countries but I'm thinking Argentina. I'm sure someone here will chime in and correct me. I think they are also low pinion but it would be a bolt in deal.

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Ha, nope. Those are as common as a unicorn. Even then, they are still the Dana 30 weak axle tubes, etc.

I agree with Seiler, get a high pinion Dana 44 out of a Ford, and you will have 1/2" thick tubes, and high pinion gears. Much better.

most of sieler's post is spot on, except that: the D44 housing is WAY stronger than your D30, unless you truss. The axle you picture is 1.5" wider than a stock XJ, if you used the D44 outers. You CAN (don't read that as should) use some dodge D44 outers and keep the 5 on 4.5, but IIRC the unit bearings on those axles are garbage (read not even as strong as your D30 units). If you are considering stock 30 knuckles on a D44, PM Frank Z - he has a HP D44 in his rig with WJ D30 knuckles/brakes -- that said, I don't think the knuckle swap is worth the effort on a LP axle. I run a Waggy D44 (like yours pictured), but one of the primary reasons for the swap was hubs and bigger brakes, plus matching the 6 on 5.5. of my Isuzu D44 rear.:cheers::scottm:eace:

Coastie said:

Better chance of winning the lottery. Unless you have a line on some and keeping us all in the dark?

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Well I figured he's from Peru so it would be a lot easier for him to locate one, and if he wants to keep his previous upgrades this might be feasible.

xray said:

Well I figured he's from Peru so it would be a lot easier for him to locate one, and if he wants to keep his previous upgrades this might be feasible.

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I followed you on that. May have been the only one though...

xray said:

Well I figured he's from Peru so it would be a lot easier for him to locate one, and if he wants to keep his previous upgrades this might be feasible.

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Good eye, I usually browse on a small laptop on the couch and I can never seen where people are from unless I scroll over.

Hi guys! Yes I'm in Peru, we have few Venezuelan XJ's running down here (that's from where comes from stock the Dana44 in XJ's) but sourcing a complete XJ Dana44 from there is very difficult. I have seen in person them but can't say much about the tube diameter but I think those are high pinion-reverse cut.

In the other hand I might swapp the entire Waggt Dana44 and weld all the supports a I need to make it fit in my XJ and keep all the strong parts for the Dana44, I mean NOT cutting the axle to fit the outter stuff from the Dana30.

For the rear, I have a factory Dana44, I guess I will have to add 1.5" spacers/converters so the wheels will be 6 bolt type, hope I don't put much axial stress for the axle shafts there.

My current wheels are 15" and made from steel, very easy and very cheap down here to modify them to 6 bolt, so no problem with it.

Now, not sure if RVC cv axles offers axle shafts for the Waggy front axle, might need to email them.

In the other hand, what Ford model and between what years should I look to get the same Dana44 but with high pinion and reverse cut? Would these axles have the same system as the Waggys, servisable bearings, manual hubs and the same 6 bolt pattern as the Waggy? How about the discs rotors and brake caliper, also fo the knuckle and steering linckage position?

Thanks!!

Seiler said:

A high pinion housing is going to be stronger than a low pinion in the front.

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This is not correct. A high pinion housing or a low pinion housing are basically the same in strength.

It is the low pinion RING GEAR in the front that runs on the coast side that makes the low pinion weaker in the front. Not the housing it self.

OP, you basically just made a TJ Rubicon D44 front, but with way more work involved. There are a few Rubi 44's for sale in the market, and on Pirate. Too bad guys think they are made of gold and should be priced as such.

cracker said:

This is not correct. A high pinion housing or a low pinion housing are basically the same in strength.

It is the low pinion RING GEAR in the front that runs on the coast side that makes the low pinion weaker in the front. Not the housing it self.

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Dude, you know what he meant. Technically the RING GEAR doesn't have a pinion, the housing is what determines the placement of the pinion. So yes, the low pinion housing as a whole is weaker.

sunburned said:

Dude, you know what he meant. Technically the RING GEAR doesn't have a pinion, the housing is what determines the placement of the pinion. So yes, the low pinion housing as a whole is weaker.

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Nope, you are incorrect. What fails, the ring gear or the housing? Regardless of the fact that the housing determines the placement of the pinion, how many housings have you seen fail.

The housings are the same strength, its the fact that the GEARS are running on the coast vs. drive sides that makes the low pinion weaker than a high pinion in the front. Craker was correct, the gears are not the housing, and the gears determine the difference in strength.

Ok dude, you don't get my point either. By housing I meant entire axle assembly, which is what Seiler meant as well. Go see the dude's threads, I think he knows what he's talking about. I'm fully aware that the ring gear is what fails on a low pinion setup, but the housing is what determines the position of the pinion shaft. Therefore, the low pinion housing (meaning D44 as a whole) is weaker, and the actual weak point is the ring gear.

Sheesh.

sunburned said:

OP, you basically just made a TJ Rubicon D44 front, but with way more work involved. There are a few Rubi 44's for sale in the market, and on Pirate. Too bad guys think they are made of gold and should be priced as such.

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You can buy then brand new at a great price,either just the housing or a complete axle.

sunburned said:

Ok dude, you don't get my point either. By housing I meant entire axle assembly, which is what Seiler meant as well. Go see the dude's threads, I think he knows what he's talking about. I'm fully aware that the ring gear is what fails on a low pinion setup, but the housing is what determines the position of the pinion shaft. Therefore, the low pinion housing (meaning D44 as a whole) is weaker, and the actual weak point is the ring gear.

Sheesh.

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Get your terminology straight. A housing is just the iron casting that holds the axle tubes and the differential. A Dana 44 housing, whether low pinion or high pinion are basically the same casting with slight differences. Effectively equal in strength.

If you want to say the Low pinion D44 as a whole is weaker then say it without mentioning 'housing.'

BTW, Nominated

Doh, look what I went and started. :doh:

Cracker and Begster gave a clearer definition on what I was attempting to say. I wasn't speaking of the housing itself, but rather that of the weakness is coast vs. drive sides of the ring gear. Thanks guys.

Scott

Seiler said:

Doh, look what I went and started. :doh:

Cracker and Begster gave a clearer definition on what I was attempting to say. I wasn't speaking of the housing itself, but rather that of the weakness is coast vs. drive sides of the ring gear. Thanks guys.

Scott

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Troublemaker. :cheers: I think I would like a list of people who have actually witnessed LPD44 ring gears giving up the ghost - I think it will be a short list. I understand the engineering and that technically the LP ring is weaker in a front application, but I have wheeled with several YJ owners on 36-38" tires, locked, on LP D44s and never seen a failure. It is more than enough girth for nearly everyone, IMHO. :lecture: