• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Starter hanging up, mounting issue

Ecomike

Ecomike

NAXJA# 2091
NAXJA Member
Location
MilkyWay Galaxy
This a special problem I am having with the starter on my Diesel SD22 engine in my 85 jeep. It is a generic starter binding issue related to the mounting.

Last year one of the 2 bolts came out (vibration) and the other one sheared off. I was forced to drill the bolt remains out and replace it with a heli coil insert. The starter I am using is new, problem is not the starter, it bench tests fine. Seems that the heli coil / bolt repair is forcing the starter gear into a bind, and the starter will no disengage once it has engaged, the starter hangs.

I have been told on a diesel engine site (Guys that have my same engine) that I might open up the starter mounting hole and rotate the starter a little away from the flywheel to get out of the bind, basically compensate for the bolt holse thread miss alignment. Before I try that, I want to hear alternative ideas, from any one that has had similar problems.

Thanks!
 
I would guess that it's worth a try, but since the starter is usually spigoted fairly precisely into the hole, the first thing I'd do is try setting it comfortably in the hole and mounting it with just the one good bolt. If it works well, you'll be sure that filing or drilling out the other hole is the solution. If not, then you can be pretty sure it isn't.

edit to add: I'm assuming here that the hole to be opened up is the one in the flange of the starter.
 
Last edited:
GMs used starter shims, why don't you try shimming it?
 
Before we offer advice, recall the First Commandment - Thou Shalt Never Assume.

Normally, we can get away with it. But I know I don't know that much about Nissan Diesels...

Mike - got pix of the starter mounting? The shim idea that Joe gave us may be valid, it may not. Or, we'd need to tell you more about how the shims would have to get put on. Or ...

Givvus some pix, and let's see what we can bash around!
 
The first thing thought of was GM's shims, but on the GM starters, they bolted in perpendicularly to the starter shaft. Most other starters bolt in parallel to the starter shaft.

As 5-90 says, if we start to ASS U ME, we will assume that it is the more common situation as Mr. Currie suggests of one big hole and two bolt holes. The big hole should control the distance between the flywheel/flexplate and starter gear. The bolt holes should only control the rotation. The bolts then need to pull the flat surfaces together. Sorry, I already broke the commandment.

Have you checked with shim stock to see if the flat surfaces are indeed pulling together?
 
Ecomike said:
I have been told on a diesel engine site (Guys that have my same engine) that I might open up the starter mounting hole and rotate the starter a little away from the flywheel to get out of the bind, basically compensate for the bolt holse thread miss alignment. Before I try that, I want to hear alternative ideas, from any one that has had similar problems.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
i was thinking alignment before you wrote this part too. I had the same issue in a toyota p/u 20 years ago and that was the solution. remove the wallered bolt, install the starter using the "good" bolt hole, if it aligns and starts/disengages like that, you KNOW the problem, if that isn't the solution, you've spent no money, and made no modifications...

cheap and easy first!
 
No pictures for now. The starter shaft is parallel to the crankshaft, and the mounting bolts are parallel to both. I was thinking a shim on one side of the of the mounting face, to tilt the starter gear away from the flywheel might be one option, but not sure if that is a good idea.
 
So the starter cog is too close / at a slight angle to the flywheel, and it's binding and not letting it retract after it starts? Maybe I'm misunderstanding this...

I would bore the hole out a bit more and use a through bolt and a nut instead of a tapped hole if that is at all possible. Not familiar enough with Nissan engines to tell for sure if that bolt has space for a nut behind it or if it goes straight into the starter housing.
 
I wouldn't modify the bell housing. Just because if you do need a new started in the future than it wouldn't sit correctly with the modified bell housing for this current starter.
 
Talyn said:
I wouldn't modify the bell housing. Just because if you do need a new started in the future than it wouldn't sit correctly with the modified bell housing for this current starter.
Click to expand...

GENIUS!

Always modify the replaceable piece.
 
I would not want to shim the gears out of parallel.

With the 3(?) bolts out (or loose), does the starter move around in it's "pilot" hole? Do you have a micrometer or calipers and a telescoping gage to measure the starter OD in that area and the bell housing bore ID?

If I really wanted to try to change this distance between the gears in a robust manner, I guess I would tack weld on the starter on the side toward the flywheel and grind away on the other side.

I guess the real question at this point is: What holds the starter position? The bore hole or the bolt holes. I believe you will find out that it is the larger bored hole. As long as it bolts down flat, the bolt holes shouldn't matter.
 
I'm guessing (not able to see it from here of course) that it's possible the current setup, if it's jamming the starter in the hole, may be, in effect, shimming it out of parallel already by a tiny amount. If that's the case you'll find out fast if you mount it only with the one good bolt, as avnsteve and I have mentioned.

Also make sure there isn't some flaw, casting junk, or the like, on the new starter, that's causing it to sit crooked or seat improperly.
 
I like the one bolt idea first, the starter housing itself might be screwed up, the bellhousing would be the last thing would modify and If I did I'd look for one of those expandable inserts or nutcerts before wallowing it out. I'd also make dam sure I drilled straight and true :D
 
RichP said:
I like the one bolt idea first, the starter housing itself might be screwed up, the bellhousing would be the last thing would modify and If I did I'd look for one of those expandable inserts or nutcerts before wallowing it out. I'd also make dam sure I drilled straight and true :D
Click to expand...

IIRC, it is the bottom bolt that sheared last year. There is a top and a bottom bolt, 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock. The gears mesh at about 10-11 o'clock, with the starter at about 4-5 o'clock. The top bolt is a real pain to reach. The sheared bolt had to be drilled out, steel out of aluminum a year ago. That did NOT go well (seized). Ended up going to a larger hole, with a SS nut cert. The Nut cert and the drilled hole were not perfect, not true, but it was (is) the best I could do.

The starter acted up several (3-4 at most as I recall) times when first installed, but then worked perfectly for 100 to 200 starts in a row, before the current problem happened, so that might eliminate or answer some questions below. Back then I think it was a problem with the gear fully engaging, reverse of the current problem, but I am not sure, been too long.

I will do inspections by Saturday, weather permitting for fit, interference, etc. to answer the questions posed here. Thanks for the ideas. Keep em coming if you have more.
 
 
Here are some photos, starter, and mount area on my SD22
diesel engine. I am getting opinions from various sources
as to how best to remount/fix the hanging starter problem,
we discussed it recently, but here are photos.

The lower bolt hole is the one with the thread repair insert.
It looks to me like the starter is resting more to the right side,
due to the visual gap seen on the left side. My options seem to be
a shim under the right side (.030 brass shim?), widening
the bolt hole(s) (1/32-1/16") in the starter and shifting
the starter to the right a little and trying to keep the mount flush/parallel
or ??????

The threads on the repaired area (lower bolt thread) do not appear to be flush,
so I may just need to fix that problem, but the right versus
left side dirt fingerprint says it is not just the lower bolt that
is the only problem? perhaps it is the lower bolt and the left / right alignment issue?

I have not done anything with it yet, except take these photos. Been busy with
other stuff, but need to make a decision soon as to what to try first.
Thanks,
 
Last edited:
SD22starterface.jpg
 
SD22starterFace2.jpg
 
SD22flywheelafterremovingstartertha.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
1996 4.0 No Crank, Starter Works When Jumped
Replies
10
Views
175
DirtySouthXJ
D
H
Starter Relay Working But Not Cranking
Replies
11
Views
2K
howephillip
H
T
Random Starting Issues - ECU / PCM Problem?
Replies
12
Views
2K
TEX-J99
T
I
High idle, smells like gas, running out of things to replace
Replies
2
Views
2K
Inverhyt
I
E
CA smog issue "Minimum voltage not detected"
Replies
13
Views
982
Johnnie Walker
Johnnie Walker
Back
Top