NSS,Ignition switch linkage? Strange and Hello!

Hey all,
I have a question that I can't find the answer for...about my xj...And I wanted to Say hello also since this is my first post on here! I have had 4 xj's and 3 Rubicons as well as a zj...and now have only a '94xj and a stocker 2010 jk.
Anyway, I have what I think is a NSS problem but it is kinda wierd.I haven't torn the NSS apart yet because my xj has had intermittant starting problems and a weak battery.Anyway I replaced the battery and let it run for a bit and it held a charge...then it sat for a few weeks in the cold and wouldn't start at all(battery was down to 9v.
I hooked jumpers up to it and let it charge and then tried to turn it over. TO make a long story short I suspected the NSS. I turned the key over and wiggled the shifter.It would catch for a milli secoind and stop.
Finally I started to push the auto shifter button in and out while wiggling the shifter from Park to Neutral.I found a sweet spot and it turned right over and started up.It will not start unless I also press and let go of the shifter button.
My question is this: If it was the NSS why would I actually must push the shifter button in and out while sliding it back and forth until it starts. Do you know if the shifter is part of a sequesnce for the NSS when it senses what location the shifter is in?
I am thinking about rebuilding the NSS but downt want to go through the trouble if it might be shifter button related...
I didnt find anything on the web about this. I also checked ODB and it came up as( I might be reading it worng:
1-2-3 then 55.
Any help would be appreciated...
After this it is spray adhesive for the headliner ,some minor body work and then gutting the stereo out of it( a good one but hacked all over- I wonder if it is draining the system in addition to this problem also),,
Oh, I turned the key to "on while running the heater- it stops. (but the heep won't start unless I wiggle the shifter button and shifter between park and Reverse). THe back up lights went a year ago and it has stopped on me in traffic now and then to start later for unknown reasons!
THis is my deer getter\work machine around the house and it has a ton of miles on it and a valve cover leak that I keep promising to get to...

What you are describing are "classic" symptoms for a faulty neutral safety switch.

Here is a link to rebuilding it if you are so inclined...

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techartic...eep_cherokee_neutral_safety_switch/index.html

The stalling issue you describe could be a number of things. Crankshaft position sensor is a common one as well as a flaky ignition coil. Both can be tested for resistance values. Helpful to test WHEN symptomatic, rather than when the vehicle is running. The crank sensor fails way more frequently than the coil though.

SEARCH for tons of light reading on the crank sensor.....

Thank you and I have considered rebuild since I was able to get it into the garage today with a lot of wiggling. I thought the same but don't understand( I am hard headed) why the shifter button is part of the whole sequence. It will not start while shifting the tranny with the ignition switch all the way open.If I pump the shifter button, and wiggle the shift lever it will start.I can almost feel a linkage like movement in the column when it starts...(hahah! maybe I have become one with my xj!) maybe she is jelous of the new stocker rubi....

The NSS is a sort of "electric interlock" between the electrical keyswitch and the starter motor trigger circuit - if the NSS is faulty, wiggling the shifter (and therefore making contact with a different portion of the NSS "bands") will usually turn that up rather quickly. You'll know what I mean when you get inside the NSS and see it for yourself.

There is a separate interlock between the shifter handle and the mechanical ignition switch - this has nothing to do with the NSS - but probably has to do with why you have to release the button in order to get an actual start.

NB: I've found it handy, when overhauling the NSS, to:
- Use Gardner-Bender Ox-Gard (or similar) to relubricate the contacts, wiper arm, and contact bands. It don't take much!
- Use a finger-smear of RTV black on the mating surfaces of the NSS before you put it back together to help seal it. This should help to keep crud out of the thing. Again, be stingy with the stuff! You want to use just enough to say you have a layer on there, any more is likely to contaminate the switch. (This is optional - if you don't think you'll be able to get it right, you can go ahead and skip it.)
- Paint the protruding bit of the shift shaft with never-seez. You'll probably end up taking this thing off again, and doing so will make it easier next time.
- Be careful when torquing the fasteners! The collet nut (around the shift shaft) gets torqued to 62 pound-inches, or just a shade over five pound-feet. Most of us can do that with finger pressure and no wrench. If you do use a wrench; stick it on there and put the pad of one finger about an inch from the fastener. Then press down. Don't crank the thing down - those collet fingers are awfully easy to break... The adjuster screw (up top) gets torqued to 13-15 pound-feet. I'll use LocTite #222 or #242 on the thing and torque to the lower end - too hard, and you'll crack the housing.

Adjustment
- Get a helper.
- Block the wheels.
- Put the key in, do not start the engine.
- Shift into Reverse.
- Slide under.
- While your helper watches, turn the NSS to one end of the adjuster travel, and slowly turn it to the other end.
- Your helper should tell you when the reverse lamps come ON - mark that spot. Likewise when your helper tells you that the reverse lamps have turned OFF.
- Set your NSS to between the two marks you just made, and secure the adjuster screw.
- Put it back in Park, reclaim your keys, go have a sammich.

Total time for the job, start-to-finish? I've been able to get it all sorted in an hour, if I was showing someone else what I was doing and explaining it as I did it. It's not a difficult job - just be careful getting that damned NSS off, because it's easy to break! (And damned expensive to replace...)

There is a separate interlock between the shifter handle and the mechanical ignition switch - this has nothing to do with the NSS - but probably has to do with why you have to release the button in order to get an actual start.

I think I got it now...Thanks. I will tear it apart and see what happens...THe RTV is a good idea. I will make sure that is part of the fix. Thanks all, I will report the results back once I can get to it...I am headed to Phoenix for a week so I won't be able to tear it out.

5-90 said:

The NSS is a sort of "electric interlock" between the electrical keyswitch and the starter motor trigger circuit - if the NSS is faulty, wiggling the shifter (and therefore making contact with a different portion of the NSS "bands") will usually turn that up rather quickly. You'll know what I mean when you get inside the NSS and see it for yourself.

There is a separate interlock between the shifter handle and the mechanical ignition switch - this has nothing to do with the NSS - but probably has to do with why you have to release the button in order to get an actual start.

NB: I've found it handy, when overhauling the NSS, to:
- Use Gardner-Bender Ox-Gard (or similar) to relubricate the contacts, wiper arm, and contact bands. It don't take much!
- Use a finger-smear of RTV black on the mating surfaces of the NSS before you put it back together to help seal it. This should help to keep crud out of the thing. Again, be stingy with the stuff! You want to use just enough to say you have a layer on there, any more is likely to contaminate the switch. (This is optional - if you don't think you'll be able to get it right, you can go ahead and skip it.)
- Paint the protruding bit of the shift shaft with never-seez. You'll probably end up taking this thing off again, and doing so will make it easier next time.
- Be careful when torquing the fasteners! The collet nut (around the shift shaft) gets torqued to 62 pound-inches, or just a shade over five pound-feet. Most of us can do that with finger pressure and no wrench. If you do use a wrench; stick it on there and put the pad of one finger about an inch from the fastener. Then press down. Don't crank the thing down - those collet fingers are awfully easy to break... The adjuster screw (up top) gets torqued to 13-15 pound-feet. I'll use LocTite #222 or #242 on the thing and torque to the lower end - too hard, and you'll crack the housing.

Adjustment
- Get a helper.
- Block the wheels.
- Put the key in, do not start the engine.
- Shift into Reverse.
- Slide under.
- While your helper watches, turn the NSS to one end of the adjuster travel, and slowly turn it to the other end.
- Your helper should tell you when the reverse lamps come ON - mark that spot. Likewise when your helper tells you that the reverse lamps have turned OFF.
- Set your NSS to between the two marks you just made, and secure the adjuster screw.
- Put it back in Park, reclaim your keys, go have a sammich.

Total time for the job, start-to-finish? I've been able to get it all sorted in an hour, if I was showing someone else what I was doing and explaining it as I did it. It's not a difficult job - just be careful getting that damned NSS off, because it's easy to break! (And damned expensive to replace...)

Click to expand...

What concerns me, besides the NSS needing a service and adjustment, and an adjustment for the Park Lock cable (and maybe the trans shifter too) is the 9 volts/poor running after a couple of weeks of sitting. When about 9 volts the engine management system will start doing funny things and I think that is part of your problem.

Put a full--overnight (Ok) or 24 hour (best) full charge on the battery and have it load tested.

You can check for a parasitic draw when the key is off by removing the negative cable from the battery and putting a 12 volts test light in series. A bright light indicates a too heavy draw, and you need to isolate and repair that circuit. A dim light is Ok as there is a slight draw for the radio memory and PCM/ECU.

Don't forget to clean your cables, both ends, and check their resistance--should be near ZERO. Also, don't forget to renew the grounds. Clean and tight.

5-90 said:

- Use Gardner-Bender Ox-Gard (or similar) to relubricate the contacts, wiper arm, and contact bands. It don't take much!

Click to expand...

Excellent advice, particularly the anti-seize on the shaft. Double check that the lube you use on the contacts isn't conductive. Ox-guard or similar usually is. A silicon grease (di-electric grease) or petroleum jelly would probably work fine. Use some sandpaper to smooth out any grooves in the contacts as well.

lawsoncl said:

Excellent advice, particularly the anti-seize on the shaft. Double check that the lube you use on the contacts isn't conductive. Ox-guard or similar usually is. A silicon grease (di-electric grease) or petroleum jelly would probably work fine. Use some sandpaper to smooth out any grooves in the contacts as well.

Click to expand...

Hm. Done a dozen NSSs that way, and haven't had any trouble. Then again, I don't use very much at all.

If you're patient with a Dremel, new contacts for the wiper arm can be made.

A bit of advice I forgot - take the screws out of the shell, then put the shell in a large (I usually use a gallon-size) Ziploc bag. Close it up, then take the shell apart.

Why? The contacts on the wiper arm are spring-loaded. Not very much pressure, but it can be enough to lose one (or both) if you're unlucky...