Turn signal electrical gremlin

Pre-Edit: Woah, sorry for being long winded... Just tried to give all the info I had :laugh: FYI, 1993 XJ, I think that's all that really matters for this problem, cant think of any options that would matter, but if was pretty much a base level 93.

So I just got the Jeep registered today after an 18 month period in storage, then a couple months of repairing floor pans, etc. So I just went for my first test drive since getting it back on the road and have a bit of an issue. My turn signals/rear lights are acting strange. First off, I know that both of the tail lights were working a couple weeks ago and I am pretty sure the turn signals did as well. When I pulled the Jeep out of my garage before the snow storm we had just before Xmas I took a pic of it, both tail lights on.

I don't know if everything was working from the start of my drive or not, I forgot to do a pre-drive walk around, but I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary while driving at first, so I think everything was working fine. Part way through my drive I went to take a right hand turn into a parking lot and noticed that my signal indicator on the dash was not flashing. I figured it may be the flasher relay thing had gone bad... Except the dash indicator didnt turn off when I put the turn signal switch to the off position. Then I put the signal switch in the "left turn" position and still no change. Put the turn signal swtich back to "right turn" and the dash indicator turned off.

So I did some playing with it when I got home this is what I found:
(this is all with the headlights and/or parking lights on)

• With turn signal switch centered (off) the right turn signal dash indicator is on
• With turn signal switch down (left turn) the right dash indicator is on, (same as above)
• With turn signal switch up (right turn) the right dash indicator turns off (wtf?)
• I am fairly certain that the rear passenger side parking light is on, but the drivers side is off regardless of turn signal switch position (switch up, down, or centered: the passenger rear parking light stays on, but may be a bit dimmer than normal. I dont remember how bring it should be).
• All parking lights at the front of the vehicle seem to be working fine, but no turn signals workup there either.

(with parking lights/headlights off)

• Dash turn signal light goes off
• turn signals still dont work.

So it seems like there is some strange feedback going on...

Since a few weeks ago when I know the lights were working, I have done very little to the Jeep. Other than parking it and driving it around the block once, all I did was bolt in the passenger seat, my driver side seat belt, and do trans/t-case fluid swaps.

I think that I remember my left turn signal working when I pulled out of the gas station (there was a cop in the parking lot so I would have been sure to use it). It seems that the problem started as soon as I used my right hand turn signal (the first time I used it during the drive).

Tomorrow I will be digging around a bit more when I have some better light and sleep. But until then, any ideas what to look for? It seems like the issue just started today, most likely during my drive. Seemed to start as soon as I used the right turn signal so as soon as I put power down the line of the circuit everything blew up and stopped working. I will be checking fuses tomorrow and such, but any other relays or stuff I should look for?

Update: I just went out to play with it a bit before going to sleep. Starting pulling off the drivers side rear light to see if the bulb was blown out. The light turned back on half way through taking it off. So I have a lose connection back there. That issue is now solved. All parking lights now work OK.

Now the only issue is the turn signal deal, which is acting the same way:
If all lights are off, the dash shows no lights at all, like normal, and turn signals dont work.
If lights are on, the dash lights up like normal, except that the right turn indicator is on. But if I put the turn signal switch to the "right turn" (up) position the right turn indicator turns off.

Oh, and another thought, how does the dash dimmer work. Is it supposed to be: "turn the headlight switch clockwise to brighten, turn the headlight switch counterclockwise to dim"? Or the other way around?

my MJ was doing the exact same thing. my problem was the plastic piece inside the column, when the hazard knob was pulled something was grounding out and causing the signal lights to stay on.

this is the piece that went bad on mine, HTH.

NAPA Part# ECH DL6209

GrimmJeeper said:

my MJ was doing the exact same thing. my problem was the plastic piece inside the column, when the hazard knob was pulled something was grounding out and causing the signal lights to stay on.

this is the piece that went bad on mine, HTH.
[picture deleted]
NAPA Part# ECH DL6209

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Thanks! But two things make me wonder if it is that or not:
1) Was it only when the hazard knob was pulled? I never pulled my hazard (though that doesn't mean it's not the same thing).
2) My dash light is lit up, but the rear indicator is not lit. If the physical mechanism in the column was stuck I would expect that it would always be sending a signal that the turn signal should be on, which would always keep the turn signal on. So bI would think that if my physical mechanism was stuck "on" my rear indicator would always be on... but it isn't... just the dash light is on :dunno:

And when I say that the right turn indicator is "always on", I don't mean that it is always on & flashing. I mean that it is always on... period. No flashing, just on.

Grimm, does that change anything? Or does it still sound like what yours was doing? I am heading to the JY tomorrow so maybe I will try and pull one and see if that fixes anything. I already tore my steering column apart years ago so I got everything I need to do so, should be a quick and easy job if that is it.

mine was solid on, all the time, and it would go out when I hit the brakes. no idea what was going on there but changing out that switch fixed it :dunno: it's only 25 bux so its not too expensive to just try and see if it helps any.

Thanks for the replies. The issues solves themselves somehow. I went to the JY and while I was there I grabbed one of those switch units and a flasher relay. I swapped out the flasher when I got to the parking lot... no change. I then started driving home and all of a sudden my turn signals worked fine (but I still had the feedback into the dash lights).

I then drove out to central MA (1.5ish hour drive). When I was leaving and turned on the headlights, there was no feedback anymore. All seems well. I will definately keep these things in mind. My only question is for MJR: Why do you say front signal? Why not rear?

themangeraaad said:

My only question is for MJR: Why do you say front signal? Why not rear?

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Because on the Cherokee the rear turn signal light socket is seperate from the parking lamp socket. In the front the turn signal and parking lamp wires are in the same socket. I have seen the lead contacts on bulbs mushroom and short across the socket contacts also. If the socket looses a ground (fairly common too) the parking lamp bulb will backfeed through the turn bulb and cluster. If it's a ground problem I usually cut/solder the ground directly to the metal part of the socket.

MJR said:

Because on the Cherokee the rear turn signal light socket is seperate from the parking lamp socket. In the front the turn signal and parking lamp wires are in the same socket. I have seen the lead contacts on bulbs mushroom and short across the socket contacts also. If the socket looses a ground (fairly common too) the parking lamp bulb will backfeed through the turn bulb and cluster. If it's a ground problem I usually cut/solder the ground directly to the metal part of the socket.

Click to expand...

Good point. I knew exactly what you meant as soon as I read that the rear turn signal light socket is separate. Completely overlooked that little fact. Thanks, but like I said, fixed itself. Not sure how or why, but I'm not complaining.

Only problem is that I replaced a weird electrical problem with a dead rear end. But the good part is my rear axle s*** the bed on my drive home from picking up a 9" rear to install. So I suppose it couldn't have been better timing (and the axle did get me home, so I can't complain too much).

themangeraaad said:

Thanks, but like I said, fixed itself. Not sure how or why, but I'm not complaining.

Click to expand...

It's probably that stupid ground in the front sockets, they were kinda crap. The vibration moved it and now has a ground.

Looking at my Haynes manual (forgot to bring it when we met up at the junkyard yesterday, oops!) - I bet MJR is completely right. The only way I see for something to backfeed and turn the signal indicator on the dashboard on is when the parking/markers are on, with a bad ground. The indicator was dim for sure like you said, so this makes sense. You also had that weird issue with the loosened/tightened turn signal housing on the back, so there is probably a bad ground back there too.

Sorry about jynxing your rear axle :roflmao:

Actually I think the rear light going out and the dash light coming on are completely separate issues. I think the rear parking light wire is pinched a bit, so it has an intermittent connection and is off sometimes.

The front, as MJR said, is likely where the feedback is coming from.

And regarding the rear axle... just find me a complete front D44 from a narrow track waggy for cheap and I will call it even :laugh: I think I found one up in ME so I may be driving up that way next weekend. Then I just gotta deal with fabbing up spring perches and control arm brackets.

Yep. The fronts and indicators share drive lines from the MFS, while the rears are on their own line from the switch. I'd agree with him also.