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Installed ballistic steering, bumpsteer correction questions

T

TheSandman

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Richmond, VA
So I installed my ballistic setup, which is a stout setup and I'm extremely pleased with so far. I knew I was going to have bumpsteer problems and have been trying to figure out how to correct it. I bought a new trackbar mount so I can fab up a new track bar.

I was thinking though, could I put a shorter pitman to help with the draglink angle? Would that limit my suspension travel with the steering setup?

Also, what are you guys using, joint wise when fabbing a track bar? I was thinking using something close to the RE design with a rubber bushing on the diff side and flex joint at the body. Or flex joints on both sides?

Any comments & opinions will help!

Thanks
 
I'm not familiar with the Ballistic steering design, however, to avoid bumpsteer the arc of travel of the drag link and track bar need to be the same, as the suspension cycles. Basically, the track bar and drag link need to be parallel.

Shortening the pitman arm will just shorten the throw of your steering, so you'll loose turning radius. Unless you're talking about less drop in the pitman arm, which would increase the angle of the drag link to make it closer to the angle of the track bar. This could work, but the whole idea is to decrease the angle of the steering links not increase it. Just do the work of making a new track bar axle mount and new sway bar link mounts, which is the best long term solution.

You can use any joint you want for a trackbar, poly bushing, johnny joint, or heim joint. It's pretty easy to use any of them.
 
Goatman is right, trac bar and drag link need to be parallel and travel in pretty much the same arc.

I assume you mean a pitman arm with less drop, that will limit your flex because the rod end at the pitman arm will be at a greater angle. The best fix would be to adjust your tracbar angle.

As for the trac bar ends, I run a TnT tracbar with a rubber bushing in the axle end and a superflex joint in the frame end, works well.
 
Yeah I guess I will go ahead and fab a new track bar up. Was curious about the pitman arm though, figured a new trackbar would be a better route.


I'm debating between heim's on both sides or rubber & flex joint.
 
The one reason a rubber joint on one end seems to be the norm is that it absorbs alot of vibration from the axle that would otherwise be transmitted to the body and then to your butt.

Strength wise any of the above will work fine.

Do you have an existing trac bar worthy of modifying to fit rather than fabbing a whole new one?
 
RidgeRunnerXJ said:
The one reason a rubber joint on one end seems to be the norm is that it absorbs alot of vibration from the axle that would otherwise be transmitted to the body and then to your butt.

Strength wise any of the above will work fine.

Do you have an existing trac bar worthy of modifying to fit rather than fabbing a whole new one?
Click to expand...

Well I have the RE extreme duty track bar. I figured I could sell that used and pick up all new joints and tubing and just fab one up.

I thought about salvaging it and using the ends, think I should?
 
Do you need to make it shorter or longer? I'm not familiar with that steering set-up so I'm not sure what you need to do. I shortened mine for use with WJ knuckles and steering. I had to move it up over the axle to match the higher drag link.

If you need to shorten it I'd say press out the rubber bushing, cut the weld at the race, shorten as needed, weld it up and press the bushing back in. That's what I did, only took about 30 min to do.

Another option is to re-drill the HD trac bar mount if you just need to adjust the angle a little. I did this to deal with some bump steer in my stock steering when I added a 2" drop pitman arm. I added 1" to the bottom of the bracket, drilled another hole 1" lower and added a brace to help stiffen it.

P1040529.jpg


Here is the same trac bar shortened 3" with a JKS over axle tracbar bracket on my new set up.

IMG_0104.jpg
 
The one end I wouldn't use is rubber. Who cares about slight a slight vibration, which isn't going to happen anyway. Some aftermarket track bars come with rubber, but I've never seen anyone build one with rubber. You don't ever want a worn out bushing on a track bar, and they take much more of a beating than most people figure, so a good hard joint that isn't going to wear out anytime soon should be the preferred way to go. I've used johnny joints, and they're OK, and I've used heim joints, and a tough poly bushing. My preference is heim joints.
 
RidgeRunnerXJ said:
Do you need to make it shorter or longer? I'm not familiar with that steering set-up so I'm not sure what you need to do. I shortened mine for use with WJ knuckles and steering. I had to move it up over the axle to match the higher drag link.

If you need to shorten it I'd say press out the rubber bushing, cut the weld at the race, shorten as needed, weld it up and press the bushing back in. That's what I did, only took about 30 min to do.

Another option is to re-drill the HD trac bar mount if you just need to adjust the angle a little. I did this to deal with some bump steer in my stock steering when I added a 2" drop pitman arm. I added 1" to the bottom of the bracket, drilled another hole 1" lower and added a brace to help stiffen it.

P1040529.jpg


Here is the same trac bar shortened 3" with a JKS over axle tracbar bracket on my new set up.

IMG_0104.jpg
Click to expand...

I need to make it shorter, the new track bar moves the axle mount closer to the middle.

aparke4 said:
pics of steering? that would help some - is this the heim or tre's?
Click to expand...

I can try to snap a pic when I get off work today, hopefully I can catch it before the sun goes down. It's a crossover style with heims

Goatman said:
The one end I wouldn't use is rubber. Who cares about slight a slight vibration, which isn't going to happen anyway. Some aftermarket track bars come with rubber, but I've never seen anyone build one with rubber. You don't ever want a worn out bushing on a track bar, and they take much more of a beating than most people figure, so a good hard joint that isn't going to wear out anytime soon should be the preferred way to go. I've used johnny joints, and they're OK, and I've used heim joints, and a tough poly bushing. My preference is heim joints.
Click to expand...

So you think heims on both ends? Only reason I was saying the rubber bushing is so I can hack up my RE bar and use that.
 
Just cut off the rubber bushing from the RE bar and buy a RE/Johnny/heim joint that doesn't have a shank on it. Trim the RE bar to length and weld on the joint. That's what I plan on doing whenever I go OTK.

Is your ballistic steering all heims and is it OTK? Mind posting some pics? That's the setup I'd like to use eventually.
 
sunburned said:
Just cut off the rubber bushing from the RE bar and buy a RE/Johnny/heim joint that doesn't have a shank on it. Trim the RE bar to length and weld on the joint. That's what I plan on doing whenever I go OTK.

Is your ballistic steering all heims and is it OTK? Mind posting some pics? That's the setup I'd like to use eventually.
Click to expand...

I guess I'll see what happens, I want to look into the JKS mount and see if that would work. If I don't have to modify my track bar, I'd rather not. I doubt I can get around that though.

Yes the ballistic setup is all heims. You can run it OTK, but I have mine UTK.

Yeah I was gonna post one yesterday but I've been busy, it's dark out here now. I'll try to snap one tomorrow or thursday.
 
Hey I got a few more questions,

I was looking into the JKS track bar brackets that mounts near the factory mount, I wonder if I used that, can I keep the RE track bar without modifying it?

Also, is it ideal to have a longer trackbar or a shorter track bar?

I'm getting ready to change the oil in my WJ, so I'll go outside and take pics of the steering setup for everyone.
 
To get rid of bump steer. the track bar needs to be the same length as the drag link. You will notice that the track bar is off set and a different shape, at least in the stock configuration. But if it was straight it would be the same length and parallel to the drag link. As long as you follow this, you will not have bump steer. As far as particular brands mixing and matching, that I can't answer. You may need to just end up fabbing something up.
 
Well if I used the ballistic fab trackbar mount, it's going to make the trackbar shorter because the mount sits between the passenger UCA mount and the coil spring bucket. Maybe I should go with JKS's mount.

Comments?

Here's a few pics of my setup.

IMG_2051.jpg

IMG_2052.jpg
 
wow that looks great

did you have to specify rod lengths or are they precut?

bumpsteer with a knuck to knuckle tie rod set up is different than a stock style set up - puttung the balance beads in my 37's on the wj knuckle set up really helped - also i aligned it my self and got it also aligned at the shop but by that point i had hydro assist and it soaked up any remaining bumpsteer

even with 33's on my DD xj what really helped was a proper track bar OTK set up - getting that more parallel with drag link is crucial

no plans for a stabilizer? how does it feel without? i would think those tubes would soak up a lot and dampen out most of the residual street manners/ etc than stock...
 
aparke4 said:
wow that looks great

did you have to specify rod lengths or are they precut?

bumpsteer with a knuck to knuckle tie rod set up is different than a stock style set up - puttung the balance beads in my 37's on the wj knuckle set up really helped - also i aligned it my self and got it also aligned at the shop but by that point i had hydro assist and it soaked up any remaining bumpsteer

even with 33's on my DD xj what really helped was a proper track bar OTK set up - getting that more parallel with drag link is crucial

no plans for a stabilizer? how does it feel without? i would think those tubes would soak up a lot and dampen out most of the residual street manners/ etc than stock...
Click to expand...


Thanks man, I don't plan on running a stabilizer at all. From the shop to my house, it didn't get much wobble, but the bumpsteer was so bad, it may just mask it. I didn't run a stabilizer for about a month on the stock setup and felt great, if that matters.

The tubing comes in lengths, and you cut them to your specs.

I think I might try the JKS bracket and use the RE bar without modding it and see what happens. Think that would work? Or should I fab up a straight track bar?
 
There are two things you can do to help correct this.

Change the pitman arm for one with less drop.

Move the axle end of the trac bar up and toward the driver side and move the frame mount more to the outside by the same amount.

The only other option is to move the trac bar mount on the axle up and to the right and leave the other one alone, which will still give you a slight bit of bump steer, but will be an improvement on what yo have.
 
4.3LXJ said:
There are two things you can do to help correct this.

Change the pitman arm for one with less drop.

Move the axle end of the trac bar up and toward the driver side and move the frame mount more to the outside by the same amount.

The only other option is to move the trac bar mount on the axle up and to the right and leave the other one alone, which will still give you a slight bit of bump steer, but will be an improvement on what yo have.
Click to expand...

Yeah I thought about putting another pitman, either a ZJ or stock one, but I think that would increase the draglink angle at the pitman arm, thus would decrease suspension travel, correct?

I'm still leaning towards the JKS mount, anyone have any pics of it installed?
 
TheSandman said:
Yeah I thought about putting another pitman, either a ZJ or stock one, but I think that would increase the draglink angle at the pitman arm, thus would decrease suspension travel, correct?
Click to expand...

In effect, yes.

TheSandman said:
I'm still leaning towards the JKS mount, anyone have any pics of it installed?
Click to expand...

It looks like the OE JKS trac bar mount will still leave the trac bar in about the same place and the JKS over axle mount might put it too high. My pic shows the JKS over axle mount.
 
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