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SYE or Transfer Case Drop?

wolfpackblack

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Raleigh, NC
Hello all, I'm new to the forum but have been stalking as a guest for a while and was hoping someone may be able to point me in the right direction. I tried searching but couldn't find anything that quite touched on what I was curious of.

I have a 97 XJ with a RE super ride 3.5" lift. I use it as my daily driver, as most of my heavy wheeling is done with my YJ. Most of my time off road in the XJ is done in fields and fire trails since I live out in the country, but it doesn't see any heavy duty wheeling. I am about to throw boomerang shackles on the rear and some spacers in the front next week to get some additional clearance and to balance out some sagging in the rear, and I am wondering if I can just get away with a T case drop instead of putting in an SYE? Half of the guys I know say that 3.5 is the limit without an SYE in a 97 regardless of a t case drop, and the other half say it'll be fine as long as I'm not doing any heavy duty wheeling. Any opinions or experiences are appreciated.
 
What transfer case? SYE is always better. Tcase drop adds more stress on the motor mounts. It's up to you in the end.
 
It's a NP 231. I would like to go with the SYE, but I'm worried about the total cost of everything I'll need. Can the stress on the mounts cause significant problems?
 
They can wear quicker. With an NP231 you should be able to do a SYE (if you do the work yourself, Do it, very strait forward. The 231 is a very simple case.) for under $250 (with a front shaft).
 
the transfer-case drop dont cost much (spacers and longer bolts). I think it won't hurt to try before to decide if it is not enough to take care of the vibes.
 
http://www.performanceoffroadcenter.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?products_id=153. Get a stock XJ front driveshaft from an auto. Should bolt right up I believe. I paid $15 for a stock front driveshaft + $ of new joints. Don't be scared to tear into that transfer case. I believe it has 4 moving parts. It's very simple, while you are at it, look into getting new shift pads.(can't miss them they are plastic and located on the shifting forks) An easy replacement while you are in there, and a common problem. Take the transfer case out and put it up on a bench if you can. It doesn't take to long and makes things much easier. I can pull a transfer case in about 25 mins.
 
http://www.performanceoffroadcenter.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?products_id=153. Get a stock XJ front driveshaft from an auto. Should bolt right up I believe. I paid $15 for a stock front driveshaft + $ of new joints. Don't be scared to tear into that transfer case. I believe it has 4 moving parts. It's very simple, while you are at it, look into getting new shift pads.(can't miss them they are plastic and located on the shifting forks) An easy replacement while you are in there, and a common problem. Take the transfer case out and put it up on a bench if you can. It doesn't take to long and makes things much easier. I can pull a transfer case in about 25 mins.

Wow, I didn't realize you could pick them up for such a reasonable price, all of the kits I've seen on major wheeling sites are 250+ for something that industrial. Most T case drops I've seen are about $50, but it's important enough to me to get this right since I spend a lot of time driving each day, so if I could pull this project off for about $250 I'm gonna go with the SYE. So I'd just need that kit, a new shaft and 2 joints, right?

Also, I've heard the front shaft is too short to use with a 35, is there any truth to that?
 
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I have the 4.0, AW4, NP-231 (with SYE) with the D35 rear axle, the driveshaft was probably a half to one inch too short with the 6.5" lift. I wont trust it even if it fit with about 3" of lift because if you have the XJ on a car lift the rear axle droop, which pretty much will pull the t-case hard or taking the driveshaft apart.

for the Hack-N-Tap it may be different though
 
That's what I was afraid of. I've heard it's perfect for the 8.25, but too short for the 35. I actually wasn't familiar with the HnT until you mentioned it and I did some searching and found this kit:

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merc...en=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-X_HNT

I'm tempted to go this route since everything off road for me is pretty basic in the XJ, although I think I may be able to cut some costs by pulling my own shaft out of the junkyard somewhere, especially since they admit they are "refurbished".
 
That's what I was afraid of. I've heard it's perfect for the 8.25, but too short for the 35. I actually wasn't familiar with the HnT until you mentioned it and I did some searching and found this kit:

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merc...en=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-X_HNT

I'm tempted to go this route since everything off road for me is pretty basic in the XJ, although I think I may be able to cut some costs by pulling my own shaft out of the junkyard somewhere, especially since they admit they are "refurbished".

Yeah but it only costs $15 more than the PORC kit. Sure you could find a driveshaft at a junkyard for that price, but you also have to spend a half day searching for and pulling it... And you end up with a rusty old non-refurbished driveshaft!
 
Read this on another forum, from Rocklizard:


'96+ XJ's with the 231 TCase are cheaper to do the SYE setup as they got the new sealed 231. This also did make them more prone to vibes, especially with the 8.25 axles, due to the steeper driveline angles from shorter driveshafts. Don't listen to the misconception about SYE's only needed if you have vibes. This is a big bunch of passed around misinformation that one year is better than another whe it comes to vibes. It doesn't matter if you have an 84 or an 01 XJ, whether or not you get vibes, no matter how much lift you have, if you lift it, you need a SYE...PERIOD. Can you get by without one, sure, but your are putting a lot of stress on your driveline whether or not you feel the vibes. Vibes have nothing to do with the stress on your tcase. People think if they don't have vibes, they don't have problems, or if they do have vibes, they try to get rid of them with cheap no good absolutely fix nothing but give a false sense of security that everything with the driveline is hunkydory garbage fixes like TCase drops, shims without SYE's, longer yokes, extended stock driveshafts, etc.

This is going to get long, so grab some popcorn. I have posted this many times on many other forums to help educate those misinformed to help show that saving money with cheap fixes is more expensive in the end. This a cut and post from one of my other forum posts on why you need a SYE/CV shaft:

"I personally do not recommend any of the cheap alternative fixes for driveline vibes, such as TCase drops, shims without SYE, YJ yokes, etc. Those items are bandaides to remove vibes, but they do not address the real issue at hand. Vibes are a physical indication of UJoint binding. UJoints are cheap to fix. Vibes are often mentioned in the forums as a problem because they are annoying. The real problem is the stress put on the output shaft and bearing of the TCase when you lift and increase the operating angles of the driveline. The more you lift, the greater the operating angles, the greater the stress. Think of it this way, if you take a wood dowel rod, place it over your leg, and roll it back and forth over your leg, this is similar to the output shaft of the TCase at stock height. Your leg is the output bearing. Now, take that dowel rod, leave the left side at the same pressure while pushing down with the right hand to cause a bow in the rod, and roll it back and forth over your leg. The left side symbolizes the shaft in a fixed position inside the TCase, while the right side is pulled downward by the increased operating angles of the driveline. The greater the angle, the more downward pressure, the sooner the rod (shaft) will snap at your leg (output bearing). The purpose of a SYE/CV shaft is to shorten the output shaft and distribute the forces of the rotating shaft through two UJoints instead of one. If you take the dowel rod again, but shorten the right side by 2/3, it is much more difficult to bend it over your knee when applying the same pressure that snapped the longer rod. You use shims at the axle end to remove the stress on the axle end UJoint, and the remaining stress is distributed among the two joints at the TCase end. My father once got onto me as a small child when I was flipping the switch to the power locks constantly. He told me that items are designed with a certain lifespan. If the lock switch was designed to last for 1,000 switches before needing replaced, and I flipped the switch 100 times in 2 minutes, I decreased the expected life by 10%. Ever since I try to think of everything this way. This isn't an exact science, but I think the point can be made here. Just making up some numbers for example, if the stock driveline was setup to last 250,000 miles before the TCase needs an overhaul, and you lift 2" and leave the stock setup and drive 25,000 miles like this, you decreased the life of your TCase 50,000 miles. Like those cigarrette commercials, with every cigarrette, you decrease your life by 7-10 minutes. It's not a perfect equation, but it should make sense. Vibes are not the culprit, they are a reminder that something bigger is going on in your driveline. Eliminating vibes is a good thing, but don't do it just for the vibes.
2-3" of lift isn't going to kill your TCase overnight, especially when compared to 6" on a stock driveline, but if you get rid of the vibes using those cheap alternatives, just keep in mind your TCase may not last as long as stock. The brand of lift isn't going to matter, the year of your XJ doesn't matter, the amount of vibes doesn't matter, if you lift it without a SYE/CV shaft, life is shortened. It amazes me that the XJ was designed with a SYE/CV shaft in the front of the TCase, but was not done to the rear. It doesn't make sense that is wasn't done right straight from the factory, but this can be corrected.""

_________________
WWW.ROCKLIZARDFABRICATIONS.COM
 
Yeah but it only costs $15 more than the PORC kit. Sure you could find a driveshaft at a junkyard for that price, but you also have to spend a half day searching for and pulling it... And you end up with a rusty old non-refurbished driveshaft!
I've gotten a driveshaft before work before - showed up at the junkyard at 8am, was walking out the gate with my driveshaft by 8:30, at work by 9. Bring a 5/16 deep socket, a ratchet, a 5/16 ratchet box wrench (Craftsman GearWrench or equivalent), and have them jack the jeep up or bring a hi-lift/hydro jack or something. Put it in 4wd, throw the parking brake on, crack the seal on all the bolts (the gearwrench is for the cv end at the transfer case) then you are home free. Also - word to the wise, pick the junker with the greasiest, oiliest bottom you can find, preferably one with a rear main seal leak and a front pinion seal going bad. That driveshaft will be in the best shape ;)
 
NP231 SYE $199: http://www.jbconversions.com/products/sye/np231j_std_sye.php What transmission do you have? If AX-15 you could have reasonable luck with tc drop, less so with the AW4 due to the length of the trans/rear driveshaft. If you do a tc drop, don't just get a kit with spacers, get a kit with the tc lever adapter bracket included, like Skyjackers.
 
Read this on another forum, from Rocklizard:


'96+ XJ's with the 231 TCase are cheaper to do the SYE setup as they got the new sealed 231. This also did make them more prone to vibes, especially with the 8.25 axles, due to the steeper driveline angles from shorter driveshafts. Don't listen to the misconception about SYE's only needed if you have vibes. This is a big bunch of passed around misinformation that one year is better than another whe it comes to vibes. It doesn't matter if you have an 84 or an 01 XJ, whether or not you get vibes, no matter how much lift you have, if you lift it, you need a SYE...PERIOD. Can you get by without one, sure, but your are putting a lot of stress on your driveline whether or not you feel the vibes. Vibes have nothing to do with the stress on your tcase. People think if they don't have vibes, they don't have problems, or if they do have vibes, they try to get rid of them with cheap no good absolutely fix nothing but give a false sense of security that everything with the driveline is hunkydory garbage fixes like TCase drops, shims without SYE's, longer yokes, extended stock driveshafts, etc.

This is going to get long, so grab some popcorn. I have posted this many times on many other forums to help educate those misinformed to help show that saving money with cheap fixes is more expensive in the end. This a cut and post from one of my other forum posts on why you need a SYE/CV shaft:

"I personally do not recommend any of the cheap alternative fixes for driveline vibes, such as TCase drops, shims without SYE, YJ yokes, etc. Those items are bandaides to remove vibes, but they do not address the real issue at hand. Vibes are a physical indication of UJoint binding. UJoints are cheap to fix. Vibes are often mentioned in the forums as a problem because they are annoying. The real problem is the stress put on the output shaft and bearing of the TCase when you lift and increase the operating angles of the driveline. The more you lift, the greater the operating angles, the greater the stress. Think of it this way, if you take a wood dowel rod, place it over your leg, and roll it back and forth over your leg, this is similar to the output shaft of the TCase at stock height. Your leg is the output bearing. Now, take that dowel rod, leave the left side at the same pressure while pushing down with the right hand to cause a bow in the rod, and roll it back and forth over your leg. The left side symbolizes the shaft in a fixed position inside the TCase, while the right side is pulled downward by the increased operating angles of the driveline. The greater the angle, the more downward pressure, the sooner the rod (shaft) will snap at your leg (output bearing). The purpose of a SYE/CV shaft is to shorten the output shaft and distribute the forces of the rotating shaft through two UJoints instead of one. If you take the dowel rod again, but shorten the right side by 2/3, it is much more difficult to bend it over your knee when applying the same pressure that snapped the longer rod. You use shims at the axle end to remove the stress on the axle end UJoint, and the remaining stress is distributed among the two joints at the TCase end. My father once got onto me as a small child when I was flipping the switch to the power locks constantly. He told me that items are designed with a certain lifespan. If the lock switch was designed to last for 1,000 switches before needing replaced, and I flipped the switch 100 times in 2 minutes, I decreased the expected life by 10%. Ever since I try to think of everything this way. This isn't an exact science, but I think the point can be made here. Just making up some numbers for example, if the stock driveline was setup to last 250,000 miles before the TCase needs an overhaul, and you lift 2" and leave the stock setup and drive 25,000 miles like this, you decreased the life of your TCase 50,000 miles. Like those cigarrette commercials, with every cigarrette, you decrease your life by 7-10 minutes. It's not a perfect equation, but it should make sense. Vibes are not the culprit, they are a reminder that something bigger is going on in your driveline. Eliminating vibes is a good thing, but don't do it just for the vibes.
2-3" of lift isn't going to kill your TCase overnight, especially when compared to 6" on a stock driveline, but if you get rid of the vibes using those cheap alternatives, just keep in mind your TCase may not last as long as stock. The brand of lift isn't going to matter, the year of your XJ doesn't matter, the amount of vibes doesn't matter, if you lift it without a SYE/CV shaft, life is shortened. It amazes me that the XJ was designed with a SYE/CV shaft in the front of the TCase, but was not done to the rear. It doesn't make sense that is wasn't done right straight from the factory, but this can be corrected.""

_________________
WWW.ROCKLIZARDFABRICATIONS.COM


That makes a lot of sense. I am using the AW4 anyway, and the more I've read, the more I want to stay away from a t case drop. The I read the more I'm leaning towards an HnT kit.
 
I have a 98 with a 4.5" RE lift kit. I had success with a transfer case drop kit for a while, however I just had replace my motor mounts. I'm sure the motor mounts were bad becuase I have 185,000 miles, but now that they are new I have some vibrations in the driveline again. It's hit or miss with the drop kit, just get the SYE.
 
NP231 SYE $199: http://www.jbconversions.com/products/sye/np231j_std_sye.php What transmission do you have? If AX-15 you could have reasonable luck with tc drop, less so with the AW4 due to the length of the trans/rear driveshaft. If you do a tc drop, don't just get a kit with spacers, get a kit with the tc lever adapter bracket included, like Skyjackers.

How much does it usually cost to have a mechanic install your SYE and a new driveshaft? 2 or 3 hrs labor?
 
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