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Electric car economics 101

Ecomike

Ecomike

NAXJA# 2091
NAXJA Member
Location
MilkyWay Galaxy
Do you have a point?

No I didn't look at the links. Links, like sources in a technical document, augment the discussion. They are not the discussion.

Ron
 
....looks like a real hippy-ish website to me. I couldn't get the pages to load. Just showed the columns/ads, and some guy on the left who looks like he makes all his own clothes, lives in a mud hut and grows his own food....while worshiping mother Earth.
 
The first engineer that comes out with a $5,000 hydrogen fuel cell will put the battery companies out of business over nite.
 
Wow, that's an easy fix. Just have it made in China with the rest of the car. Before shipping the thing will probably be costed under $5,000 ;)

Still there are problems with hydrogen. One is the amount of energy it takes to generate it. Another is that at present, you process another hydrocarbon to make it, and lastly is distribution.

Methane is the most abundant, look on top of any dump, or any old sewage plant that doesn't have a collection system. See that flame? Pure Methane.

Ron
 
JNickel101 said:
....looks like a real hippy-ish website to me. I couldn't get the pages to load. Just showed the columns/ads, and some guy on the left who looks like he makes all his own clothes, lives in a mud hut and grows his own food....while worshiping mother Earth.
Click to expand...

Odd.
The links work fine here. RichP had no problem.

This guy has been in the investment, patent, legal end of the new tech battery markets for many years. They are his articles on the battery, car, utility market dynamics, from a market dynamics and investment view point. These of course intersect with politics these days. His writing, in 4 parts, drags all of these into the topic with an overall view of the investor in mind investing in the new battery tech companies, but like I said, the politics of the new batteries, electric cars, smart grid with batteries to store solar energy...., etc., gets involved, and is discussed too, along with what he refers to as myths!

But not a good read I guess for shallow minded people.
 
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Zuki-Ron said:
Wow, that's an easy fix. Just have it made in China with the rest of the car. Before shipping the thing will probably be costed under $5,000 ;)

Still there are problems with hydrogen. One is the amount of energy it takes to generate it. Another is that at present, you process another hydrocarbon to make it, and lastly is distribution.

Methane is the most abundant, look on top of any dump, or any old sewage plant that doesn't have a collection system. See that flame? Pure Methane.

Ron
Click to expand...

You are right about methane, natural gas. Probably the most sensable thing to be driving (if we had the infrastructure already set up) would be hybrid jeeps that ran on natural gas. Right now it would be like using .30 a gallon gasoline, and it would have a lower CO2 impact, than gasoline.

If we ever start mining solid methane hydrate safely, we will have enough methane for 1000 years.
 
RichP said:
The first engineer that comes out with a $5,000 hydrogen fuel cell will put the battery companies out of business over nite.
Click to expand...
Don't know about cost, but we can already run fuel cells with a reformer in front of it using methane.
 
Ecomike said:
You are right about methane, natural gas. Probably the most sensable thing to be driving (if we had the infrastructure already set up) would be hybrid jeeps that ran on natural gas. Right now it would be like using .30 a gallon gasoline, and it would have a lower CO2 impact, than gasoline.

If we ever start mining solid methane hydrate safely, we will have enough methane for 1000 years.
Click to expand...

They do that in Utah according to what I have read. When gas hit $4/gal, people started buying up PNG cars out there like crazy because they cost way less to operate than the gasoline ones at $4/gal.

I like the idea Honda has. You buy the car and a refilling station which hooks to your NG line. The problem is the start up cost isn't real cheap.
You can drive your paid for 1984 Cherokee all day long, with major repairs, and still come out ahead on the cost over a new "efficient" vehicle.

Ron
 
Zuki-Ron said:
They do that in Utah according to what I have read. When gas hit $4/gal, people started buying up PNG cars out there like crazy because they cost way less to operate than the gasoline ones at $4/gal.

I like the idea Honda has. You buy the car and a refilling station which hooks to your NG line. The problem is the start up cost isn't real cheap.
You can drive your paid for 1984 Cherokee all day long, with major repairs, and still come out ahead on the cost over a new "efficient" vehicle.

Ron
Click to expand...

An investor / friend of mine, has billionaire friend in Canada that started a company in England 10 years ago just doing NG retrofits on Limos in London. Sold the company last year to the Germans for about a $35 million dollar profit.
 
Ecomike said:
Odd.
The links work fine here. RichP had no problem.

This guy has been in the investment, patent, legal end of the new tech battery markets for many years. They are his articles on the battery, car, utility market dynamics, from a market dynamics and investment view point. These of course intersect with politics these days. His writing, in 4 parts, drags all of these into the topic with an overall view of the investor in mind investing in the new battery tech companies, but like I said, the politics of the new batteries, electric cars, smart grid with batteries to store solar energy...., etc., gets involved, and is discussed too, along with what he refers to as myths!

But not a good read I guess for shallow minded people.
Click to expand...

I was only commenting on what I saw :D

I dunno what it was, the page would start to load, but none of the article ever came up. Tried it later in the evening and it worked.

I read the first page before bed, but still had lots of questions and things to be curious about. First being, do ANY hybrids today use Li-Ion batteries? Or are they all still using Ni-Cad? I need to make sure my campaign of informing folks about Nickel mines is still valid :D

Basically, what I'm getting is that this guy is a huge proponent of Hybrid vehicles (like the Prius) but against PHEV (?) and EV - didn't get into all the acronyms though.
 
I think most hybrids are using NMH, not NC batteries. Someone has just started using Li-ion this year, but I am a little fuzzy on who it is at the moment.

But yes, he makes a solid case for HEVs versus PHEVs and EVs for sure.
 
Hell, I was just going to ignore it. Shallow minded b/c I don't use FireFox and IE wasn't loading....ok

:D
 
with the way they like to rust, i wouldnt' say there's much stainless steel :D

Even in the most common "grade" (say, 304 stainless), you're only talking about 8-12% of it being nickel....
 
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