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Vibrations after a flat fix? Driveline

EMSJEEP

EMSJEEP

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Long Island
I had a screw pulled and my tire patched the other day. They balanced the wheel with a combination of weights (on the inside rim and the sticky kind). Following this I started getting bad vibrations from 20-50 mph. It feels like driveline but everything looks OK to me. All the universals are under 20k miles, the last one was replaced maybe 10k ago. It clunks pretty hard from Drive to Reverse and I have a rotational metal on metal noise when I accelerate from a stop until about 15mph. Initially I thought they screwed up the balance but the vibrations are pretty bad for just that. All they did was jack it up work on the wheel and put it back...

I recently did front brakes and adjusted the rears but it was fine until I had to get the tire fixed...

No noises in neutral or with the t-case in neutral, clunking aside, which isn't altogether abnormal, I'm thinking probly not the transmission...
 
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Did you run the tire flat? If so you may have damaged the belts in the sidewall. Did the tire shop patch or plug the tire? Patching is the way to go on radials. Or the tire shop really messed up on the balance. Take it back and have them redo it.
The scraping noise may be the the stick on weights rubbing the brake backing plate or caliper.
 
stesul411 said:
Did you run the tire flat? If so you may have damaged the belts in the sidewall. Did the tire shop patch or plug the tire? Patching is the way to go on radials. Or the tire shop really messed up on the balance. Take it back and have them redo it.
The scraping noise may be the the stick on weights rubbing the brake backing plate or caliper.
Click to expand...


No, it was not run flat...down to about 8psi but it actually looked OK...BFG MTs...good for them I guess.

The stick-on weights on the inside of the wheel are clearing everything. I'm guessing it was a patch because it took them a while but it doesn't say on my recipt. It was, specifically, a tire shop (the shop I bought the tires from) that I happened to be near.
 
Yeah, I took it back and they denied that it could be their doing...didn't want to redo it due to the noise from below. The vibration seems pretty bad for just a bad balance...
 
Sounds like the puncture cut a cord/belt in the tire.
 
old_man said:
Sounds like the puncture cut a cord/belt in the tire.
Click to expand...

It was fine for two weeks until it really started to leak bad and I had to get it fixed...

Would this cause the computer to do wacky things in an attempt to balance it?
 
Bad tire balance usually hits around 60 MPH (except on really big tires).
Really bad U-Joints tend to vibrate gradually worse until around 75 MPH and then just become a harmonic.
My guess would be they possibly failed to seat the disc correctly and now the lugs are loose or they bent something with the jack.
Re check that the lugs are tight. It's also a good idea to use a torque wrench to tighten the lugs, impact wrenches can warp things and or crack a rim.
 
I've had many odd vibes ad shimmies through the years caused by over-tightened wheels, and just about all were alloys. Any time I have to have the wheels balanced, I will tighten them on myself. I believe the torque for the wheels in 70-75 to 100lb/ft, and I shoot for 75, in four steps- 30, 45, 60, 75 lbs. This seems to let the wheel seat gradually, as opposed to the impact gun method of ramming the nuts tight one at a time. Any time I see a gun with 'torque sticks', I respectfully ask to finish the process myself, and I am usually accommodated. I normally try to have a torque wrench with me if I'm going to have wheels worked on.
 
Jack that wheel up a little bit and give it a spin. Look to see if it wobbles or looks out of round. I'd also crawl under and give the drive shaft u-joints a good inspection for slop (parking brake on, wheels chocked, tranny in neutral).
 
heyhar said:
I've had many odd vibes ad shimmies through the years caused by over-tightened wheels, and just about all were alloys. Any time I have to have the wheels balanced, I will tighten them on myself. I believe the torque for the wheels in 70-75 to 100lb/ft, and I shoot for 75, in four steps- 30, 45, 60, 75 lbs. This seems to let the wheel seat gradually, as opposed to the impact gun method of ramming the nuts tight one at a time. Any time I see a gun with 'torque sticks', I respectfully ask to finish the process myself, and I am usually accommodated. I normally try to have a torque wrench with me if I'm going to have wheels worked on.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that seems to have been a factor. I rotated the tires and the really bad vibrations have gone away. However, they have been replaced by a worse noise.

The rear driveshaft is spinning in an oblong orbit which is worse at the input yoke to the rear axel. The DS is slamming into the input yoke and powers the vehicle not through the u-joint but by resting on the yoke of the input shaft. There is bear metal where they contact. This is the u-joint I had to replace about a year ago as it got ripped apart. How this got worse just in the last couple of days...I have no idea...it seemed fine until I had the tire done. I watched the vehicle the whole time, they didn't do anything crazy.... I dunno...thoughts on the underlying issue? Maybe time for a new thread...this isn't OEM tech anymore with the SYE and CV DS...:banghead:

The angle was good when this was all installed, right around stock with some shims and the SYE/CV setup, it has only settled from there. I don't really like doing my own u-joints as I don't have a great driveway (sloped and gravel)...I'm going to go get a better look and see if it is shot again, maybe the stock part isn't going to cut it...
 
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OK, take that back, rear u-joint is FUBAR...

So...the question is...WHY? and in 12k miles?
 
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It looks as if something big got into your u-joint and bent it badly. That's not normal wear.

Before I looked at the picture I was going to mention that it's pretty easy for an XJ to wear out rear u-joints very fast if the yoke is worn out. After many miles and years, the little ear at the end of the yoke that locates the ends of the cups can wear out. Once that happens, the joint will develop end play almost immediately.
 
Matthew Currie said:
It looks as if something big got into your u-joint and bent it badly. That's not normal wear.

Before I looked at the picture I was going to mention that it's pretty easy for an XJ to wear out rear u-joints very fast if the yoke is worn out. After many miles and years, the little ear at the end of the yoke that locates the ends of the cups can wear out. Once that happens, the joint will develop end play almost immediately.
Click to expand...

The rear axel was replaced around 65k miles, we are at 105k now, due to a catstrophic failure of the rear differential. This U-joint was replaced in January or so for this same issue. It just looks like the cap has been torqued off.
 
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WOW!! I don't know how you didn't spit that thing out. I've had to stop and pick up stuff that didn't look that bad. When you get it fixed, let us know if it was the problem. And yeah, the yoke looks a little spread there.
 
Um, yeah I think you found the problem. :}

I wonder if whoever replaced it the last time bent the drive shaft ears. It's easy to do with the bad technique I see everyone use to remove the old joints. Sticking a big socket on the bottom and a pressing a small socket at the top puts a lot of load between the ears. If the upper cap is seized you can easily bend or break the ears. At the very least if the ears are flexing it makes it harder to press the caps out.

My method uses a piece of u-channel underneath to support the cross of the ujoint, and then I use the press or BFH on a big socket on the top. The effect is to push the u-joint itself upwards, pushing the upper cap upwards into the big socket. Flip over and repeat on the other cap. This puts zero force between the ears. I use the normal method of reassembling as the new joint usually presses in pretty easy after cleaning up and anti-seizing the ears.
 
lawsoncl said:
Um, yeah I think you found the problem. :}

I wonder if whoever replaced it the last time bent the drive shaft ears. It's easy to do with the bad technique I see everyone use to remove the old joints. Sticking a big socket on the bottom and a pressing a small socket at the top puts a lot of load between the ears. If the upper cap is seized you can easily bend or break the ears. At the very least if the ears are flexing it makes it harder to press the caps out.

My method uses a piece of u-channel underneath to support the cross of the ujoint, and then I use the press or BFH on a big socket on the top. The effect is to push the u-joint itself upwards, pushing the upper cap upwards into the big socket. Flip over and repeat on the other cap. This puts zero force between the ears. I use the normal method of reassembling as the new joint usually presses in pretty easy after cleaning up and anti-seizing the ears.
Click to expand...


The old one pretty much fell out...they were surprised that they were able to drive it from the parking lot into the garage to work on it. I was out in PA and had the closest dealer I could find do the work. I don't know if it is actually bent or if that is just the picture. Its wet today, I'll see if I can get a better angle...
 
I dont think it is bent...I think it was just the way the picture was taken.
 
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