Blown head gasket? Need second opinion

I picked up an '01 XJ a couple months back on the cheap, but the thing had rod knock on the #1 cylinder. Pulled the engine and instead of rebuilding, I decided to pick up a used engine out of a wrecked '98 XJ w/89K miles from a local salvage yard. I thought I'd be able to drop the engine in within a couple of days, but life got in the way and the project was put on hold for 3 weeks, essentially ending my 30 day warranty from the salvage yard to verify that the engine was alright.

Anyway, skip ahead to today and I dropped the engine in and fired it up after a bit of tweaking with the '00-'01 camshaft sensor (I guess I had it in backwards). The engine fired up, but sounded awful like it wasn't running on all six cylinders. Shut the truck down and ran a compression test on it and I was right. 160-180 psi compression on cylinders 1, 4, 5, and 6, but 0 psi on cylinders 2 and 3. I ran a leakdown test on cylinder 2 and the air was escaping out of the cylinder 3 spark plug hole. I put a sparkplug in the hole to see where the air would then go and the coolant in my overflow tank started bubbling, so I'm thinking blown head gasket, but just want a second opinion. I'm also thinking of just replacing the head gasket, but I'm afraid that the reason this engine has a blown head gasket in the first place is because it overheated, which would mean the block and head would both need to be decked for straightness. Guess I'm just looking for a way to NOT pull the engine out heh.

I should call the salvage yard and raise hell since the receipt that came with the engine claimed it was 'tested' and also provided me with a VIN # of the Jeep it came out of. Had a buddy run a carfax on it for me and last reported mileage was 151,000 miles - so I was screwed on that too. I'm out of my warranty period with the yard, but I'm going to call them and speak my mind, hopefully not letting my emotions get in the way and going off on the guy.

Definitely talk, nicely, to the owner/manager of the salvage yard. Have your facts written down and copies of the CarFax and receipt with you. Also, before talking with the guy think about what exactly it is that would satisfy you from him. Don't expect the world, it is past their 30-day period, but know ahead of time what you would consider fair. If he is unwilling to help you, then you have a couple of choices--your state probably has a consumer fraud department, you can contact them and file an official complaint. You can sue him in small claims court, so you will need good records and some kind of proof that you gave him an opportunity to mitigate (correct or lessen the problem) before filing suit. Also, if you used a credit card to pay for the engine you can protest the charge through the card issuer. Good luck.

Thanks for the response. The first issue of him outright lying to me about the mileage is going to be a tricky one to tackle. The only proof I have of him telling me it had 89K miles on it was a verbal conversation via phone when I was inquiring about any 4.0L Jeep engines he might have in the yard. He said he had one already out of a Jeep, but the mileage was unknown, but he also had another one still in a wrecked Jeep with 89K miles on the odometer and it would take him a few days to remove it. I took his word on that and agreed to put a deposit down (via credit card) and would pay the remaining balance when I came to pick it up. He called me a few days later to tell me it was ready to be picked up and I went to get it on 8/1/09 and paid the remaining balance on my credit card. Nowhere on the receipt does it mention the mileage of the engine, but it does say it was "tested."

I'm technically still in my warranty period, but I'd have to pull the engine out today or tomorrow and take it down there Monday morning - two things that are NOT going to happen - would mean blowing off my GF and missing a day of work...I don't think so.

Ideally, I'd like him to refund me at least half of the cost of the engine. I paid for a good, running engine and I assumed that "tested" meant that was what I was getting. I dumped a decent amount of change on new gaskets for this thing too - oil pan, valve cover, rear main seal, oil filter adapter and intake/exhaust. Seemed like the logical thing to do with the engine out and on a stand. Also spent a chunk of change on fluids, too....it all adds up. If he wants me to bring the engine back, I've lost out on the cost of the fluids and possibly the gaskets (although I'd probably remove the oil pan and valve cover gaskets before I returned it...not sure if the intake/exhaust is reusable once it's been torqued to spec).

Completely unrelated sidenote: The fuel system and ECU seem to be doing their job. I guess they detected a very large amount of unburnt fuel leaving out the exhaust and leaned the truck out to compensate. On the cylinders with compression, the plugs looked to have been burning WAY lean and VERY hot. So hot that the porcelain cracked on a couple - brand new plugs wasted.

TerraWombat said:

Seemed like the logical thing to do with the engine out and on a stand.

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Yet a leakdown test didn't make your list.

Saudade said:

Yet a leakdown test didn't make your list.

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It did, but the tester that I have doesn't contain the right spark plug thread diameter and pitch. At the time it didn't occur to me that I could have used my compression tester as a pseudo leakdown tester - meaning it would pump air into the cylinder, but it wouldn't give me an actual reading like my leakdown tester would. So you'll have to pardon my ignorance, but thanks for the awesome advice!

I had the same problem on #4 & 5, and it was a blown head gasket between the 2 cylinders. No other signs of the blown head gasket. Rare type of head gasket failure, but it does happen. It was an 89 with 114,000 miles on it.

Ecomike said:

I had the same problem on #4 & 5, and it was a blown head gasket between the 2 cylinders. No other signs of the blown head gasket. Rare type of head gasket failure, but it does happen. It was an 89 with 114,000 miles on it.

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This was the type of response I was hoping for. I've never seen a head gasket fail like this before so I wasn't sure of the root cause. I've got to ask now - did you replace the head gasket on the '89 and all was well after that? If I could get away with another $50 or so in gaskets, I wouldn't mind pulling the head and replacing the head gasket - it would also give me a chance to replace the valve steam seals.

If the head does appear to be warped, I do have the original head from the '01 engine that appears to be fine. Granted, it's the '0331' casting, which is prone to cracking, but that engine had 157,000 miles on it and ran great on all six cylinders, but had a nasty rod knock. Although, that wouldn't take care of the block if that is also warped. However, I'm getting a sense that the head gasket simply failed and it was nothing to do with any overheating. Time will tell...

The overheating is the real wild card. Our 89 was overheating, and running rough at idle when I took a chance and bought it for $900. Only had 114,000 miles, and was in near perfect shape. IN this case the overheating was a 20 year old OEM radiator. New rad solved the overheating issue.

I had the local machine shop clean, and service the head, $120, $200? something in that range, I forget the exact cost. They installed the new valve seals, took a tiny bit off the head to make sure it was flat, and I followed the thread instructions on a recent thread 5-90 and Muad'Dib worked on for his head job, took some advise that worked quite well. Got about 20,000 miles in 12 months on that beast now with no worries.

BUT! There were no oil, coolant, or other leak issues like you have, so I would be real careful since you also have air getting into the coolant on latest tests on that one, as right now, short of pulling the head, and inspecting the block, you still have one BIG unknown there. I would more worried about a cracked block showing up after you pull the head, and then not having any recourse left with JY. I would call the JY, tell him the entire story, ask him what he is willing to do, and if you make a deal with him, ask for it in writing to CYA.

For all you know, all they did was take a wrench and turn the crank to make sure the engine was not seized up as their it's OK test.

He may just give you an engine swap anyway.

I don't know of any way to isolate or determine the source of the gas to coolant leak in your case, with out at least pulling the head.

I would never risk reusing an 0331 head. I would be more worried about a cracked block than a warped block. I don't think the 4.0 block can warp, at least not without severely cracking first, and all the bad blocks I have heard of or seen had a huge hole in the block from the sudden emergency exit of a runaway rod on the loose.

The 4.0 block is extremely tough and solid. The heads, not so much.

All that said, the overheating problem damage is most like limited to the head, as a cracked block leak would probably show up with coolant in the oil.

First and foremost - thank you for the detailed response!

The junkyard will be receiving a call from me tomorrow morning when they open back up, but I'm just trying to weigh my options in the event that the JY manager says, 'bring it back Tuesday or no refund.' As far as I can tell, there is no coolant contamination in the oil. When I received the engine, it still had about four quarts of oil in the pan and it came out a bit dirty, but definitely not infused with coolant. My testing with the "new" engine has been very brief, for obvious reasons, so I'm not sure if I've even allotted enough time for the coolant to mix with the oil.

Called the junkyard this morning and talked to the owner/manager. He became very defensive when I told him of the blown head gasket stating that all engines are tested before they are sold and that he was driving the Jeep around the lot before he pulled it into the shop to yank the engine. He asked what I wanted to do and I told him I'd like a good engine and he claimed he had none to sell me, but could get me one from another yard with 87k miles. He was also able to provide me with a VIN # of the Jeep it came out of. I then brought up the issue of the inaccurate miles and he just blamed it on someone rolling back the odometer.

Just ran the VIN # of the newest engine in question and last reported reading was 136,019 in 2006 before it was involved in a roll-over collision in 2008.

I will be calling tomorrow and demanding a full refund. He has already mentioned that the motor will be out of warranty, but he didn't specifically say he wouldn't refund me.

Good luck with that. How much did you pay for it anyway?

If they give you any more guff let visa get the refund for you

I paid $500 for it - on the assumption it was a GOOD 89K mile motor, not a blown head gasket, 155K mile, tired engine.

I'll be calling my friend again on my lunchbreak...

TerraWombat said:

I paid $500 for it - on the assumption it was a GOOD 89K mile motor, not a blown head gasket, 155K mile, tired engine.

I'll be calling my friend again on my lunchbreak...

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WOW! Did they use vaseline? Sorry to hear that. Down here you take the pick of the JY for $169, and if the engine is no good, you just return it and swap it.

Still I would be inclined to try and work a deal with the guy.

Ask to see the engine running before you swap it maybe?

I don't put a lot of faith in ODO readings. They are meaningless, as an ODO with 300,000 miles might have a new engine.

I searched for WEEKS to find a decent, low mileage engine for less than $500 around here and came up with nothing. A few e-bay auctions here and there, but the price shot way up in the last few minutes. Most yards in my area want $650-$900 for a complete 4.0L engine with less than 100K miles on it, so when I heard 89K miles for $500, I thought I was getting a deal.

The JY manager is willing to work with me. I told him I'm going to pull the head and inspect it and we'll go from there. He'll pay for the machine shop to have the head cleaned, decked, and a valve job, just need to keep him in the loop.

I removed the cylinder head today and, what do ya know, the gasket was blown out between cylinders 2 & 3 - about a 3/4" chunk missing from the gasket itself, which I sort of expected. My other thought was that the engine overheated and caused the head to warp enough to no longer created an air-tight seal between the two cylinders. I'm not sure if this type of failure is better since it seems the gasket was the source of failure and the engine didn't actually overheat at all. Too many variables and too many unknowns - best to just take the head to a machine shop and have it checked for flatness and do a little rebuild while I have it off.

Looks like some coolant was getting in there and steam cleaning the piston heads too.

5-90 says that kind of inter-cylinder failure can be caused by carbon build up on the gasket edge that gets red hot (usually on a lean cylinder) and burns its way through the gasket. That narrow area is not cooled as well as other areas. A partly clogged fuel injector can cause the lean cylinder. May not be warped, but get it checked anyway.

Ecomike said:

Looks like some coolant was getting in there and steam cleaning the piston heads too.

5-90 says that kind of inter-cylinder failure can be caused by carbon build up on the gasket edge that gets red hot (usually on a lean cylinder) and burns its way through the gasket. That narrow area is not cooled as well as other areas. A partly clogged fuel injector can cause the lean cylinder. May not be warped, but get it checked anyway.

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My thought was the massive amount of gasoline dumped into the cylinder (and did not combust due to the lack of compression) acted as a cleaning agent.

I dropped the cylinder head off this morning at my local(ish) machine shop. They're going to clean the head, check for cracks, make sure the surface is flat, and do a valve job assuming it checks out okay.