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head gasket?

WebDog

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Center City, MN
I have been battling a heat issue for about 6 months now, I swapped in a all new cooling system 3 row rad and new hoses, pump, thermostat. All new, but it still runs hot and when i am under load going up hills the temp climbs to 225 - 240 F.

I also have coolant loss, to the overflow tank because of the temp.

Could this be a small head gasket leak super heating the coolant?

Does this look normal?

3668914784_c677869117_b.jpg
 
Hard to tell with the glare in that picture, kinda looks like water in the oil, but not sure due to the glare.
 
I have seen traces of overnight water condensate on the dip stick tube/ dip stick, that disappear after repeated in and out withdrawals of the dip stick.

I would keep a real close eye on it.

There is a block tester kit at Autozone you can borrow ($20 deposit, free rental, just buy the $7 test solution) to test for head gasket leaks in the coolant. Did mine a few days ago to verify if I had a small leak or not. Mine was OK.
 
Maybe ill try to rent that kit, that photo was after about 5-6 wipes of the stick.

Sounds like a plan. Keep in mind that head gasket leaks can be one way, and there are many paths, so while the rental test is a good test, it won't identify all possible head gasket leaks.

You can also rent (free, $90 deposit) a radiator and radiator cap tester (if yours is 91 or newer with the real radiator cap, not the Renix plastic football/turtle bottle) to pressure test the coolant system.

And a leak down tester with the coolant system open, radiator cap off, may show bubbles in coolant, but they may not show a leak to the bulk oil area.

I would try all three tests. Any one might show a problem the others miss. Leak down test would show a leaky valve, or head gasket, or minute crack in the head or block.

I take it you have looked for bubbles in the coolant with the cap off, and thermostat open?
 
Are both fans working correctly??

In the pic the oil looks normal.

Nick
 
I'm not a mechanic but I don't see water on that dipstick. There was anti-freeze getting in the engine of my old '91 XJ. When the engine was cold the water appeared as "fish eyes" (round droplets of water surrounded by oil) or as a slimey whitish goo of oil & water mixed. After the engine was driven for an hour or two the water would burn out of the oil and you wouldn't see any trace of water.

For what it's worth, the first overheating problem on my '98 XJ was caused by a leaky exhaust gasket dumping hot exhaust gases into the engine bay. The second time the overheating was caused by a worn out clutch in the main fan. If you can rotate the main fan by hand very easy at all when the engine is hot then the fan clutch has failed. (engine off of course)

According to Dr Dino from this forum, it is not abnormal for a Jeep Cherokee engine to operate at 220 under some conditions but it sounds like you're hotter than that. Dr Dino's Cooling System Upgrades for the 4.0 Dr Dino has got all sorts of tech info on cooling the 4.0 that has helped me.

Hope this helps. Others will have additional advice.
Doug
 
You guys don't see the beads of water standing up on the left side, bottom of that dip stick? They stand up, like water, different color than the oil which is blacker higher up, on the right side.
 
Looking at the pic. the left is the top of the stick.. The oil looks normal to me.

Nick
 
Looking at the pic. the left is the top of the stick.. The oil looks normal to me.

Nick

Your right by golly. I was looking at it upside down, backwards. In that case it does look normal, or pretty normal looking oil/dipstick. I have seen condensation over night on mine that looked that way, on the top of the strick, when a cold front came through or when It set a few days or weeks, that looked like that. Also may be air bubbles as ceb0217 said.

No sign of gross water contamination for sure.
 
The oil will read high 'streaking' up the dip stick if you check the engine oil soon after the engine was running. and also the more times you keep checking the oil on the dipstick (dipping it in and out of the engine) the more oil flys up on the guide tube and gives you those long streaks. It looks normal to me.

Try parking the jeep on flat ground wait over night and remove the dip stick ONCE and take a look. with a standard sized filter, and 6 quarts of oil in the system (not counting any oil consumption issues) it should be almost perfect with the top of the full line/area.

My thought is that you have bad radiator shrouding, a bad fan clutch/fan blades (cracked ect). Blockage of air flow to the rad, or trapped air in the system.

Head gasket leaks, can happen many ways. And i dont think its your problem but i'll go over it briefly anyway.

EXTERNAL
coolant and or exhaust/air fuel mix blowing out between the head and block outside the engine.

INTERNAL
coolant to cylinder. This is where you will burn coolant. If you were to remove a spark plug in that cylinder and look at the piston it would be MUCH cleaner than all the others almost new/shiney looking. You also may experience a white smoke out of the exhaust. or a sweet smell like maple syrup out of the exhaust. If you removed the oil cap and looked under it most likely you will notice something similar to mayo stuck to the bottom of it. Also you will eventually note an abnormal loss of coolant. a misfire feeling is also very possible + CEL.

What can also happen is an over pressurization of your cooling system. since now your coolant system is being pressurized by the engines cylinder compression. if you were to take off the rad cap when the truck is COLD and a start the engine and observe, if you see air trying to escape thats whats happening. also there is test kits for exhaust gases in the coolant.

Other times it can fail with the coolant into an oil passage which just gives you coolant loss/mayo on the underside of the oil cap. SOmetimes when this happens if its bad enough if you let the truck sit over night and have it facing on a slight up hill, if you were to slowly crack the drain plug until it just starts leaking, you would see water/coolant start flowing out. since over night the water/coolant sinks to the bottom and the oil sits on top (oil and vinegar type thing)

blah blah blah...
 
I chased a similar problem when I first got my 88XJ. No coolant in oil, a number of successful pressure tests by the dealer, etc. I kept looking for puffs of white exhaust, but saw none. Then one hot day, while under load, I saw a puff of white smoke. I let the car cool down, and put it under load, no white smoke. The dealer pressure tested it again on a hot day and found the head gasket leak. The dealer resurfaced the head and replaced the head gasket.

Apparently, under load the coolant pressure was rising the head slightly (like a relief valve) and venting the coolant into the bores (i.e. white exhaust smoke). The head bolts were obviously in the elastic range and after cool down, the head resealed. I had always thought that maybe a set ARP head bolts might be a good investment.

Best regards,

CJR
 
ARP head bolts???

More likely the combustion pressure, under heavy load was raising the head, and letting coolant in, not the coolant pressure.
 
Best price I have found on headbolts: http://headbolts.com/amc.html

I would have to be building a mean stroker before considering a set of ARP bolts.
 
Ecomtke,

My son and I just rebuilt a Mitsubishi V6, w/ copper head gaskets, and an automatic transaxle. As recommended by the gasket mfr, we used a copper gasket sealant on the gaskets,heads, and block. On fire-up, the head gasket leaked oil into the coolant, but the cylnders did not leak. Lesson learned? We will use Permatex Super 300 Form-a-Gasket on all future head gasket replacement jobs.

This Permatex Super 300 product is used on turbo charged engines with boosts up to 35psi. Some motorcyclists have even removed their head gaskets and just applied this sealant to block and head. It's gave higher compression ratios and was like milling 0.040 inch off the head to increase performance. There are other stories of race cars being built with just using this Permatex Super 300 Form-a-Gasket sealant instead of a head gasket and then being raced successfully for 300 miles.

Bottom line is that head gaskets can leak just about any place.

Best regards,

CJR
 
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