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  #1  
Old November 24th, 2008, 13:35
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Shorty Shorty is offline
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will caster change effect camber too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
Lifting has no effect on camber, that's pretty much fixed by the C's and the knuckle/ball joints. One thing that does change drastically if he has stock steering is that the inverted Y setup will give him way more toe-in from the lift. Either way, check the alignment. His castor probably changed too if he didn't go longarm or use drop brackets.

Question:

is there any camber built into the C's that will change as the caster is adjusted? I understand that lengthening the LCA or UCA will rotate the axle to adjust castor, but does this have ANY effect on the camber also?

I'm at 4.5" with drop brackets (old Trailmaster) and stock arms. I've got brand new ball joints, hubs, UCA and LCA bushings and a metric tonne of negative camber on both wheels. Alignment is in the works, but I want to be sure I've taken care of everything I can prior to dropping her off.

As an illustration, if any of you have the SA Design book High Performance Jeep Cherokee XJ Builder's Guide--Brian Vetrano"s rig on pg 53 has about half the neg camber I'm dealing with.

Any help is appreciated

P.S. I posed this question in another thread, but realized afterward that the title for it may not get any hits on the search for titles.....

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Old November 24th, 2008, 14:11
Magus2727 Magus2727 is offline
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

usually adjusting any part of the suspension will cause small adjustments in other parts. we are normaly talking negledgeable amounts though.

I have adjustable camber plates on a compact car the toe and the caster shange ever so slightly ( on the order of .1*) when the camber is changed from 0* to-3*)

Usually you can get ball joints that will allow you to dial in the camber you want but you set them for what you need and hope they are right other wise you have to re press the ball joint.
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  #3  
Old November 24th, 2008, 14:16
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

If you don't adjust the length of the control arms to control caster, then yes the axle will rotate as you lift it changing the caster. I just set mine up as RE recommended and haven't seen any negative effects. Did you remove all the adjustment shoes when you installed your Drop brackets? Are you running stock length arms, or adjustables? The drop brackets call for stock length at your height. From a geometry standpoint, you lowered the frame end 4" and then put in 4.5" springs, so you effectively have the same a s a .5" lift. Hence the stock length arms. If your arms are too long then that will effect your caster, if you left the caster alignment shoes in the drop brackets, that will effect your caster too.

After reading your post again and editing this one, you either have worn out ball joints, or something's bent. Jack each tire up in the air and grab it by the top of the tire and try to move it side to side.
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Last edited by markw; November 24th, 2008 at 14:19.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 14:20
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

so you don't believe any camber is built into the C's? That's not what I want to hear... darnit!

any alignment techs out there?
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Old November 24th, 2008, 14:24
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

balls are new and as best I can measure, everything matches my other D30. Stock arms and same shims as pre-lift alignment. I thought the .5" lift shouldn't change things that much.

Adjustment shoe and shims are in new bracket and are same as pre-lift. That is the correct method, no?
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  #6  
Old November 24th, 2008, 14:32
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

The RE brackets have you toss that adjustment shim during the install. Maybe that's the issue? I'm sure if you rotate the axle far enough the caster will become the camber. But generally, camber isn't adjustable. Think about it, all you can do is control the length of the arms and the position of the arms via shims, which just rotates the whole housing. The camber is fixed by the design of the C's. Yes there are adjustable ball joints that can somewhat correct camber. You can check the housing to see if it's bent or not, the easiest way to tell is to see if the axle shafts are centered as the exit the tubes at the C's. The other way to tell is to pull the axles, and carrier, clean the tubes, and put a straight edge through the tubes. It should touch on the bottom/top/sides when you move it around the tubes and look for gaps at the pumpkin.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 14:45
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

I'll have to look into removing/ changing the adjustment shoes for sure. I completely understand that the C dictates the camber and (outside of offset balls) isn't adjustable. I am trying to determine if rotating the axle with fixed C's will also change the camber. If some (any) camber other than 0* is built into the C, it will change with relation to the vertical centerline. As I set this thing up, I kinda assumed there was nothing built into the C, but upon stepping back I realized it's pretty "bow-legged."
Axles are centered in the tubes, and measurements to the ball jouint match my other axle, so I'm not holding hopes very high that the axle is bent-- sure seems like it would be though...
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Old November 24th, 2008, 14:54
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

How much castor do you have?As you increase caster what looks like camber is actually partialy caused by your toe-in.Ive been on several runs and stopped on the trail and "said,hey something doesnt look right here"!
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Old November 24th, 2008, 15:03
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

I guess if I knew that, I'd be closer to finding my own answers, huh? I am still buttoning everything up and getting ready for an alignment. I was kinda wishing for a "yeah, as you rotate the axle, you'll increase/ decrease your camber too" kinda answer.

thanx to everyone so far, and don't let up-- I'm enjoying the warmth (80*) in here and don't want to go back outside to prove myself wrong....
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Old November 24th, 2008, 16:49
Crabapple Crabapple is offline
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
How much castor do you have?As you increase caster what looks like camber is actually partialy caused by your toe-in.Ive been on several runs and stopped on the trail and "said,hey something doesnt look right here"!
I was in the same predicement. I was like wtf? How did my camber get set like that? It was wild looking. I reset the toe back to spec and I was fine.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 17:02
Nevada City Sparky Nevada City Sparky is offline
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Re: will caster change effect camber too?

I think to truly be "in spec" I needed 1.5 ball joints with my 4.5 RE w/ drop brackets.

The rest can be adjusted, assuming you find a shop that doesn't have their heads up their asses.

Mine runs fine slightly out of spec. The drop brackets really made a difference for long-distance hwy driving. Way more stable.
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