Snake oil mix fixes low compression & misfire code PO301

My entire original story is at this thread:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=243701807#post243701807

After exhaustive diagnostic work on a PO301 DTC code problem I discovered it had low compression on cylinder #1. In fact it had low compression on 3 of 6 cylinders but only after fixing several other causes of the misfire did I discover this. See the original thread for all the details about worn plugs, shot wires...etc.

So in one last desperate attempt at an easy quick fix before pulling the heads, and possibly worse, I tried some real serious duty snake oil additives.

Specifically I used 1 quart of Marvel Mystery oil, plus a large can of a product called "Restore" added to fresh engine oil, 10W30 Chevron. Then I added 2 crushed dry fiber pellets (light brown) that are additives for radiator leaks, head gasket leaks, etc, plus a bottle of the Prestone medium duty head gasket sealer, the one that is compatible with antifreeze, to the engine coolant bottle, closed system. Then I started the car, and while running the engine I sprayed an entire bottle of carburator cleaner into the intake manifold through a vacuum hose near the throttle body. Then I ran the engine for another 10 minutes at various RPMS, then cleared the old OBD-II misfire code, and guess what?

It has made 4 separate 20-30 minute runs and trips now, about 2 hours net time with no engine service lights, no error codes and all the emissions monitors locked in and working saying this car would pass an emissions inspection again today!

I will post more data periodically on this little snake oil experiment with a massive blend of snake oil products as time passes, including some updated compression tests once I have run them. The number 1 cyl was down to 81 psi before all the additives were added. Although I had high hopes and expectations of some improvement using these additives, I must admit even I was :scared: by the rapid results I got. I was also shocked that the rough idle is nearly gone, in fact I walked away and let it idle for 10 minutes and when I came back I thought the engine had died! I had to check the RPM gauge to confirm the engine was in fact still running, and it was!

Restore and MMO are both great products, I wouldnt really classify them as "snake oil" - but thats awesome that they fixed your problem!

Interested to see what you mean about the "crushed dry fiber pellets". Did it have a head gasket leak? I didnt get a chance to read thru your entire previous thread...

The powder is ginseng. It expands when it makes contact with air, so its good for fixing pinhole leakes that show up in head gaskets after years of routine use. As far as that goes, it's also a good thing to use in general because it won't expand and block stuff unless you actually do have a leak and it will patch up pinholes pretty much invisibly. GM used to actually require its use for use with some Cadillacs, FWIW. Not exactly mystery juice...

I'm glad you got done what you wanted done. Now, are you going to fix it the correct way or just see how long his lasts ?
I would tend to believe that heavy flow of carb cleaner removed a whole bunch of carbon that was more than likely not allowing the valves to close and seal, thats what usually happens.
That cocktail is somewhat scary.....

ehall said:

The powder is ginseng. It expands when it makes contact with air, so its good for fixing pinhole leakes that show up in head gaskets after years of routine use. As far as that goes, it's also a good thing to use in general because it won't expand and block stuff unless you actually do have a leak and it will patch up pinholes pretty much invisibly. GM used to actually require its use for use with some Cadillacs, FWIW. Not exactly mystery juice...

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Is it really genseng, how do you know for sure?

I was told by the head chemist at Prestone in 1995 that all major auto companies put 6 of those tablets in the bottom of the radiator of every new car to ensure that the radiator, heater core and head gaskets don't leak before the warranty expires! I have used it with great sucess on old radiator leaks for over 20 years, with the silcate based collants it works miracles. You are right about how the fiber works. and when the coolant wets the fiber and the fiber dries out on the dry side the silcates dehydrate and form a very hard tenacious fiber silcate complex that is as hard as concrete, after all concrete cement and sand are silicate complexes. The fibers are good at lodging in the tiny pin hole leaks and sealing them before they get big enough to be a problem.

I call these products snake oils in jest. I was once a specialty chemical salesman, before I got my Chem Eng. degree, and some people called us snake oil salesman in jest. Also some people consider these products snake oil, like Bob's the Oil guy.

JNickel101 said:

Restore and MMO are both great products, I wouldnt really classify them as "snake oil" - but thats awesome that they fixed your problem!

Interested to see what you mean about the "crushed dry fiber pellets". Did it have a head gasket leak? I didnt get a chance to read thru your entire previous thread...

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I have used all these products with great results except Restore. I had researched Restore extensively and was quite curious to try it myself. I agree they do work, but I call them snake oils in jest and because others call them snake oil. I think we answered your question about the fiber pellets. O'Reily's stocks them near the coolant system additives, 7 to a pack on card pack. Pellets about 1" diameter, 3/4 inch thick, pressed blocks of tiny fibers.

Hi , I saw this post and had to say something . I have worked as a ford tech at the stealership for many years and have put head gaskets on 50 or 60 diff kind of cars not just fords . And I have Never Never had to put headgaskets on a 3.0 Ever!! Now the 3.8 had aluminum heads and they blew headgaskets like they were going out of style , Ford had put out a T.S.B. on the 3.8 . The 3.0 if a very reliable motor if they are maintained . In your case it seems that you had carbon on the valve seat or burned valve . Probaly carbon that you cleaned out with th carb cleaner . 89 Jeep Cherokee 2WD ( RENIX )

RichP said:

I'm glad you got done what you wanted done. Now, are you going to fix it the correct way or just see how long his lasts ?
I would tend to believe that heavy flow of carb cleaner removed a whole bunch of carbon that was more than likely not allowing the valves to close and seal, thats what usually happens.
That cocktail is somewhat scary.....

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Well I am going to keep a close eye on it and run some regular compression tests, watch the coolant and oil daily for a while. Since it could have just been carbon fouled valves, I am not nearly ready to just rip off the heads as the heads and head gasket may not have been the cause of the low compression. I am tempted to pull the valve covers and retorq the head bolts to see if any are loose.

I have used all of these products on my engines for at least 20 years at various times all with excellent results, except for Restore so it was not scarry to me at all. And I had some excellent data and reports from some people who had used restore on low compression oil burners and got the compression back and stopped the oil burning blow by, for a good 20,000 miles per treatment. Not bad for $9.99. Restore turns out to be a micro collodial suspension of soft copper/lead/silver particles, too small for the oil filter to trap, that plate out in low spots and scatches on cylinder walls and pistons until compression is restored. The plating out process is apparently self limiting. Several XJr's here tell me they have used it for years with very good results on the 4.0.

What I do know is this engine is purring like a kitten now, running smoother than it did when my son bought it 12 months and 20,000 miles ago. It's about to hit 200,000 miles on the ODO.

REPOXP777 said:

Hi , I saw this post and had to say something . I have worked as a ford tech at the stealership for many years and have put head gaskets on 50 or 60 diff kind of cars not just fords . And I have Never Never had to put headgaskets on a 3.0 Ever!! Now the 3.8 had aluminum heads and they blew headgaskets like they were going out of style , Ford had put out a T.S.B. on the 3.8 . The 3.0 if a very reliable motor if they are maintained . In your case it seems that you had carbon on the valve seat or burned valve . Probaly carbon that you cleaned out with th carb cleaner . 89 Jeep Cherokee 2WD ( RENIX )

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Thanks for the post, very interesting. So far I am glad I held off pulling the heads. I am definately leaning towards the carbon deposits theory at least as part of the problem, which fits the recent repair history, worn out plugs and very worn out plug wires on the worst cylinder, as well could have run rich on that cylinder and built up heavy carbon deposits on the valve, but the plugs, new ones after 3 hours and the old ones did not look very bad except for the huge gap which was out .055 from a spec of 0.042. I am also suspecting some varnish may have baked on the valve guide areas when it overheated from loosing the coolant making the valves stick a little open. MMO would helped with that problem as well, if that was part of the problem. Hell one could have lead to the other.

REPOXP777 said:

Hi , I saw this post and had to say something . I have worked as a ford tech at the stealership for many years and have put head gaskets on 50 or 60 diff kind of cars not just fords . And I have Never Never had to put headgaskets on a 3.0 Ever!! Now the 3.8 had aluminum heads and they blew headgaskets like they were going out of style , Ford had put out a T.S.B. on the 3.8 . The 3.0 if a very reliable motor if they are maintained . In your case it seems that you had carbon on the valve seat or burned valve . Probaly carbon that you cleaned out with th carb cleaner . 89 Jeep Cherokee 2WD ( RENIX )

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Is that b/c of the head being aluminum, or just a problem with the head/engine in general?

hope it holds for you!
I kinda believe in "snake-oil", but have yet to find a combo that fixes the annoying rattle I have...although it did get alot better after I ran a few cans of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner into the TB, which kinda makes me think I had horrible carbon buildup that was causing the vavles to stick. The frequency that I get the "rattle" has subsided, but I still get it. I'm starting to think it isn't my lifters anymore, but maybe a combination of a worn timing chain and some valve rattle. I'm going to replace the timing chain soon and see what happens, and if it doesn't fix the noise then I'll just keep plugging "snake oil" in there. Hell, it's gone 10k with the noise, runs great and has good compression but just makes an annoying noise. Might be a comination of things, but the more I think about it, the less I think it's lifters anymore.

clunk said:

hope it holds for you!
I kinda believe in "snake-oil", but have yet to find a combo that fixes the annoying rattle I have...although it did get alot better after I ran a few cans of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner into the TB, which kinda makes me think I had horrible carbon buildup that was causing the vavles to stick. The frequency that I get the "rattle" has subsided, but I still get it. I'm starting to think it isn't my lifters anymore, but maybe a combination of a worn timing chain and some valve rattle. I'm going to replace the timing chain soon and see what happens, and if it doesn't fix the noise then I'll just keep plugging "snake oil" in there. Hell, it's gone 10k with the noise, runs great and has good compression but just makes an annoying noise. Might be a comination of things, but the more I think about it, the less I think it's lifters anymore.

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Does your rattle seem to come from the timing chain, front lower oil pan area???

I had a wierd rattle there, that I was sure was the timing chain or something in the pan rattling around. Turned out it was the harmonic balancer. The balancer went bad and rattled a bunch. I finally figured it out when the rubber walked out of the balancer and I changed it. No more rattle.......

Ecomike, you might want to start an Auto-RX diet on that thing. It uses esters which soak into the metal and push the varnish and crud off the cylinder walls and rings. I'm doing it on my 85 Cadillac which has low compression and tends to consume oil. You can also put a little Lucas oil stabilizer in there to bring some compression back, works wonders on my Cadi.

ehall said:

Ecomike, you might want to start an Auto-RX diet on that thing. It uses esters which soak into the metal and push the varnish and crud off the cylinder walls and rings. I'm doing it on my 85 Cadillac which has low compression and tends to consume oil. You can also put a little Lucas oil stabilizer in there to bring some compression back, works wonders on my Cadi.

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I have heard of Auto-RX here twice before, but never seen it on the store shelf, in or around Houston, Tx, before. Is it mostly an ester solvent blend? What else is in it?

I have been giving my 87 XJ 4.0, 249,000 miles a steady diet of Lucas (dino version) oil additive to keep my oil pressure up to 21 psi at hot idle and to quiet the once loud nosie of a sticking tapet. Love the stuff. I use the Lucas blended 50/50 with MMO on that engine.

w_howey said:

Does your rattle seem to come from the timing chain, front lower oil pan area???

I had a wierd rattle there, that I was sure was the timing chain or something in the pan rattling around. Turned out it was the harmonic balancer. The balancer went bad and rattled a bunch. I finally figured it out when the rubber walked out of the balancer and I changed it. No more rattle.......

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I can't really isolate the noise because it only happens occasionally (for 2-3 seconds at a time) when i'm driving. When it happens at idle it's very sporadic (only 1 second at a time, and really random). From what I can tell, at idle it isn't coming from the timing chain area, and seems to be louder from the top end, but even using a mechanics stethescope I have been having a hard time pinpointing it to the vavles. Maybe I have loose manifold bolts, I havn't checked those..
Ive been driving the engine as-is with the noise for the past 12k and it gets exceptionally good gas mileage, has alot of power and runs smooth. It also doesn't burn any oil..so I don't know?? I kinda got used to it now, but sometimes it still makes me soil my pants!

Ecomike said:

I have heard of Auto-RX here twice before, but never seen it on the store shelf, in or around Houston, Tx, before. Is it mostly an ester solvent blend? What else is in it?

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http://www.auto-rx.com/ is where to buy it and there are some FAQs there too

I have been giving my 87 XJ 4.0, 249,000 miles a steady diet of Lucas (dino version) oil additive to keep my oil pressure up to 21 psi at hot idle and to quiet the once loud nosie of a sticking tapet. Love the stuff. I use the Lucas blended 50/50 with MMO on that engine.

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I love it too but I consider it a patch. I'm hoping I won't have to use it anymore after the Auto-RX. If I still have noise and compression problems then I'll switch to Schaeffers since it has better climbing and lower foaming.

ehall said:

Ecomike, you might want to start an Auto-RX diet on that thing. It uses esters which soak into the metal and push the varnish and crud off the cylinder walls and rings. I'm doing it on my 85 Cadillac which has low compression and tends to consume oil. You can also put a little Lucas oil stabilizer in there to bring some compression back, works wonders on my Cadi.

Click to expand...

I had not considered using Lucas on this one as it does not apear to be using oil, even with 10W30 in it during the summer heat wave down here. In the summer it used 1 quart right after the oil change with MMO in the first 1000 miles, but MMO does not seem to stay around long anyway, and after toping it off with 1 quart of 10W30 it uses no oil the second or third 1000 miles. But it also does not have an oil pressure gauge, so I never know what the oil pressure really is on this one.

My next step is compression retests and puling the easy to reach valve cover on the front side for look see.

Auto RX sounds real interesting, I just read the patent on it, cover to cover. the same amount of B-100 biodiesel might do just about the same job as auto-RX, except the auto-rx may have a much better lubricant and EP lube package in it.

Got some hard compression data today! But first, I put about 3 hrs of run time on the engine since adding the Ecomike snake oil mix. First hour, no misfire codes, halfway into second hour got a misfire Cyl #1. Note that I ran engine for about 30 to 45 minutes once a day for several days, only a few short local trips. I cleared the misfire code and restarted it the next day. In the 3 hours I got only 3 misfire codes, all in the last 1.5 hours, last 2 days, and only while idling in gear, forward, for at least 2 minutes at idle. No misfires in park at idle or at 1500 to 3500 rpm. Also noted the misfire was not continuous, and started as a pending misfire only, that only showed up on the scanner, not the check engine light. Took nearly five minutes to go from a pending to a confirmed misfire code with the service engine light on.

I got to thinking that if the Restore or carburator cleaner, or gasket sealer was working, it might be raising all the cylinders compression at the same rate and thus might still have enough cyl to cyl compression difference to throw the misfire code, so I checked the compression!

Cyl #1 went from 81 psi to 115 psi, an increase of 35 psi
Cyl #4 went from 125 psi to 140 psi, an increase of 15 psi
Cyl # 5 went from 150 psi to 155 psi, an increase of 5 psi
Cyl #6 went from 115 psi to 135 psi, an increase of 20 psi

Almost forgot, 2 things, I ran a second can of carburator cleaner through it after the first misfire, and 1 hour of run time before the latest compression tests. And the spark plugs looked noticably dirty than before with some loose black carbon around the outer steel, ground area. Cyl 1 had a thin black carbon layer on the ceramic electrode insulator, which was a change from before, perhaps from the rich operation of the last, recent can of carburator cleaner. #1 insulator on spark plug had been immaculately clean the first 3 hours, now it is the dirtiest plug, not fauled but just a thin light coat of black carbon on the white insulator.

Personally I am encouraged by the data, inspite of a few occasional misfire codes.:sunshine:

What's the daily usage pattern on this vehicle? If it is all short trips for cigarettes and milk then the engine is not spending a lot of time in closed loop mode and will likely have a lot of carbon buildup. If it is used for commutes of 20 mins or more, then it likely suffers from scarring. They are different problems and require different solutions, the former needs a good cleaner like Auto-RX (top-end cleaner and carb cleaner helps some too), while the latter needs an engine treatment like Restore to help rebuild cylinder walls. It sounds like you are seeing loosened deposits so I'm guessing the former more than the latter, but it could be a combination of the two.

Wow those are some pretty substancial p.s.i. gains for just fooling with liquids. So when are you going to do a stroker?