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AXLES FOR 36 IROKS

oakesters

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Rohnert park Ca
I want to run 36'' iroks, i have a xj dana 44 in the rear and a 30 in the front, i know the 30 will have to go, but will a dana 44 be ok in the front? If I go with the 44 in front i will go with alloys and ctm. Will a 33 spline up-grade rear axle be up to the challenge in the rear or is a full floater kit be better? and this is for the rocks (rubicon, moon rocks, jv), and is there anything you can do to make both these axles hold up?
 
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are you kidding me??
why waste your money on a front D44??
you've already got the D30, put chromos and 760x ujoint's but make sure you get full circle c-clips(snap ring) just like the alloy usa, I believe the part# is 12148, even gusset the axle alittle if you want. 36" tires aren't that big!!!
so what the D44 front axle has a bigger ring gear size, I wheel with alot of people that rock their junk harder than they should, on 35's/38's, a few Iroks and some creepy crawlers, for the rear 33spl all day long, I believe it limits your locker availability to either detroit/arb/ox, but worth it
and 12gauge is correct...................if you go 60's you'll do it right the first time, but don't waste your money on a front D44
 
dana 60=38''s+ if not 40's for ground clearance, and the dana 30 max tire has been dicussed( 33's)so what are people using for there 36'' tires? and i have search, Ultimate 44 write up by crash was the best thing out there.
 
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az4wheeler2002 said:
are you kidding me??
why waste your money on a front D44??
you've already got the D30, put chromos and 760x ujoint's but make sure you get full circle c-clips(snap ring) just like the alloy usa, I believe the part# is 12148, even gusset the axle alittle if you want. 36" tires aren't that big!!!
so what the D44 front axle has a bigger ring gear size, I wheel with alot of people that rock their junk harder than they should, on 35's/38's, a few Iroks and some creepy crawlers, for the rear 33spl all day long, I believe it limits your locker availability to either detroit/arb/ox, but worth it
and 12gauge is correct...................if you go 60's you'll do it right the first time, but don't waste your money on a front D44
BIG X2!!!

Alloy shafts in the front(with upgraded joints) and rear and youll be fine!! The 44 is plenty strong with alloy shafts and the 30 will last if you keep your foot out of it. Ive seen guys wheel with 37's with semi built 30/44's and they did just fine. Just remember though, driving finesse will be your best friend!!
 
Its hard to think of a dana 30 being ok on 36'' .Most people on naxja think 35'' are to big of a tire for the 30( crash/jes/goatman) and i want to drive hard some times. and what about a axle like the jes/crash made for his rig. and want the best(strongest) option for the rear, 33 spline , full floater? and i know of a 35 spline, but its a Arb, i want a Detroit.
 
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yeah a dana 30 will work for at max a 33 if you have a damn 350 v8 in your XJ, I run 35s on mine and a buddy runs 38s on his, if you know how to wheel and build a decent axle you won't break a 30 with 36s

oakesters said:
dana 60=38''s+ if not 40's for ground clearance, and the dana 30 max tire has been dicussed( 33's)so what are people using for there 36'' tires? and i have search, Ultimate 44 write up by crash was the best thing out there.
 
""This is where I know I’m going to catch some flack. I am not a very big believer in the Dana 30 for rock use. Jes and I have a pile of broken shafts and a broken carrier to prove it. So, I cannot recommend running a tire larger than 33 inches with a locker in the rocks. Larger than this, and several things become very apparent. Your braking ability becomes horrible, the unit bearings really begin to suffer, the ring and pinion are screaming for mercy and you may start having ball joint troubles.

Polishing the turd.

OK, so you’ve got some money in your 30 and want to keep it. Understandable. What’s the ultimate 30? If I had to keep a 30, and I wanted to run 35;’s on it against my better judgement, I’d build it this way.- Crash"**

** this is were it seems to me that even 35's are a bad idea, so how can 36" hold up, and i heard from people that its almost as tall as a 37 mtr? - Ron
 
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Not sure about the 30, but the 44's have held up to years of flogging under my CJ7 with 36" TSL's and the original stock shafts. The front 44 has ejected a couple of u-joint caps, but has never broken.

I say if you are only going to run 36" tires, Dana 44 is the way to go. If you get a Dana 60, you may as well run the stock axles with 31" tires because the diff clearance would be about the same.
 
Things like vehicle weight, motor torque, transmission type, gearing, and weight of right foot need to be factored in. To people replying saying their friends run 37s on the D30; do you have rocks like JV? If not, shut it.

I think Richard's (goatman) XJ can be used as a good point of comparison. It's heavy, has a stroker motor, and fairly deep gearing (also an auto, which is generally considered to be easier on axles). He runs 37" MTRs, which are basically the same size as 36" iroks, on the same trails, and runs a front D44. He occasionally brakes hubs, stub shafts, or CTMs, but I know he has attributed much of that to residual effects of towing a dead XJ out of much of Fordyce. He is also frequently talking of upgrading to larger outers, but the D44 stuff seems to get him by.

take that for what it's worth.

my opinion is that if you can keep your XJ under 4000 pounds trail ready, run a minimally modded 4.0, auto tranny, and nothing crazy for gears, you will be fine on a D44 with alloys in the front and a 33 spline D44 in the rear. however with this combination still be prepared for a very occasional break, if you're looking for bulletproof you need to go 1.5" front and rear (60s, 9s, whatever)
 
BrettM said:
Things like vehicle weight, motor torque, transmission type, gearing, and weight of right foot need to be factored in. To people replying saying their friends run 37s on the D30; do you have rocks like JV? If not, shut it.

I think Richard's (goatman) XJ can be used as a good point of comparison. It's heavy, has a stroker motor, and fairly deep gearing (also an auto, which is generally considered to be easier on axles). He runs 37" MTRs, which are basically the same size as 36" iroks, on the same trails, and runs a front D44. He occasionally brakes hubs, stub shafts, or CTMs, but I know he has attributed much of that to residual effects of towing a dead XJ out of much of Fordyce. He is also frequently talking of upgrading to larger outers, but the D44 stuff seems to get him by.

take that for what it's worth.

my opinion is that if you can keep your XJ under 4000 pounds trail ready, run a minimally modded 4.0, auto tranny, and nothing crazy for gears, you will be fine on a D44 with alloys in the front and a 33 spline D44 in the rear. however with this combination still be prepared for a very occasional break, if you're looking for bulletproof you need to go 1.5" front and rear (60s, 9s, whatever)
**I have a auto and i just cut the back half of my jeep, (like paul s and hinkly)i was thinking 4.88 or 5.13 for gears . and i want to go to jv/ moon rocks real bad , i seen you (brettm) in the 4wheel mag.i just dont want to break all the time , or have wheel soft or light to make it by.It all most seems like the max tire size for 44 is 35'', i have a 35'' bfg km and what some thing better( the rubicon. riped a 3 inch hole in the side wall last year) and i hear that is very comon thing.
on the rear, so 33 spline is better then a full floater kit?and should i still carry spares for the rear? thanks for all the help.
 
oakesters said:
**I have a auto and i just cut the back half of my jeep, (like paul s and hinkly)i was thinking 4.88 or 5.13 for gears . and i want to go to jv/ moon rocks real bad , i seen you (brettm) in the 4wheel mag.i just dont want to break all the time , or have wheel soft or light to make it by.It all most seems like the max tire size for 44 is 35'', i have a 35'' bfg km and what some thing better( the rubicon. riped a 3 inch hole in the side wall last year) and i hear that is very comon thing.
on the rear, so 33 spline is better then a full floater kit?and should i still carry spares for the rear? thanks for all the help.

A lot depends on how you drive. If you have big tires, then use finesse and not throttle especially when you are caught in a wedge or some kind of bind, especially if you start bouncing and not moving and also if you have your steering cranked. An automatic helps lessen the impact quite a bit over a manual as does the right gearing. There will always be exceptions to the rules, but as a general rule of thumb look at what people are running on the trails you are wanting to run and see what setup they have their breakage. I run 37" MTRs (HP44/35 spline 9" alloys, OX u-joints, 4:1, 5.38/5.43s) and only have wheeled the Rubicon and Fordyce and don't get out nearly as much as Jes, Goatman, etc and these guys do the JV stuff that will eat you up and spit you out.

A good axle for up to a 37" tire are HP44/9" or 44/60 or 44/44 but use caution and drive smart not trying to show off because you'll be spending a lot of your time repairing what you broke. Crash has layed all this stuff out in his axle articles which is a great rule of thumb for extreme rock trails. Mud of course is a lot more forgiving as is an auto over a manual tranny.

Have fun and drive safe, that's my piece, I sure miss posting hear. I'll contain myself and leave it at that. :)

Troy
 
oakesters said:
**I have a auto and i just cut the back half of my jeep, (like paul s and hinkly)i was thinking 4.88 or 5.13 for gears . and i want to go to jv/ moon rocks real bad , i seen you (brettm) in the 4wheel mag.i just dont want to break all the time , or have wheel soft or light to make it by.It all most seems like the max tire size for 44 is 35'', i have a 35'' bfg km and what some thing better( the rubicon. riped a 3 inch hole in the side wall last year) and i hear that is very comon thing.
on the rear, so 33 spline is better then a full floater kit?and should i still carry spares for the rear? thanks for all the help.
what full float kit? If it's semi-float 33 spline alloys versus full-float 30 spline alloys, I'll take the 33 spliners. As for spares, it's always a good idea. If you had 1.5" alloy shafts front and rear I wouldn't bother with spares, but I know some people still would just incase.

2 questions:
First, are you set on 36" Iroks and why?
Second, do you want bulletproof or are you willing to break a shaft on rare occasion (and are you prepared to open your wallet to reflect the answer)?
 
BrettM said:
what full float kit? If it's semi-float 33 spline alloys versus full-float 30 spline alloys, I'll take the 33 spliners. As for spares, it's always a good idea. If you had 1.5" alloy shafts front and rear I wouldn't bother with spares, but I know some people still would just incase.

2 questions:
First, are you set on 36" Iroks and why?
Second, do you want bulletproof or are you willing to break a shaft on rare occasion (and are you prepared to open your wallet to reflect the answer)?
** not set on 36 irok's like them and have see what they can do,Do you think there not a good tire? I want a good trail tire that can see the road too i drive to and from trail. no my dd anymore, got a lil honda. so noise /tire wear is not that big of a deal. was thinking of creepy crawlers and krawlers, and my wallet is allway open for my jeep. now that my jeep is more a trail rig i want to make it bulletproof, but i can work on my junk, and much is occasion?
** this is what i was thinking of...........
Ultimate 44.

Let’s get down to assembling parts for the ultimate 44. Basically, I’m describing the axle Jes and I just built for him, he’s got a thread here: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36273

I’d start with a Ford RS housing, narrowed to late model Waggy width. I’d use Moog HD ball joints, Warn or Superior shafts, Crane or Parts Mike outer knuckles, OTT or Parts Mike high steer arms, an ARB or Ox Locker and Warn hubs. CTM’s or OX’s would be my joint of choice, though Longfields and Jantz’z are more budget friendly. Built this way, a 44 is good for **36's, 37’s if you have a light (sub-3500lb) vehicle. The weak link seems to be either the stub shaft or the hub, as they seem to break interchangeably.

With the advent of new parts, an even better 44 is now available. You can now run an ARB or OX with 33 or 35 spline inner axles. If you left the 19 spline outers you wouldn’t be gaining anything. But, with a Warn spindle designed for 5 on5.5” Dana 30 application, you could run a 30 spline outer. I think the hub would then definitely be the weak link, but you could always run a Warn 30 spline drive flange for the ultimate in strength. I think this setup could stand up to 37s.
 
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my reason for asking about the Iroks is that it would be much simpler to build for 35s and 35-37s feel like a no-mans-land between a D44 and D60. I can't say I'm too impressed with Iroks, though they don't seem terrible, and after seeing Paul's and Dave's Creepy Crawlers work, I'd definitely be lookin at a set of those.

this hasn't been mentioned yet... but if I was going to build for 36-37" tires, I'd probably go with Toyota parts up front, either FJ80 or a custom (wider) mini truck housing. The 30 spline birfs from Longfield are the same strength as 1.5" Spicer D60 shafts, and I think the FJ80 birfs are even stronger.

oh, and CRASH will probably chime in soon, but he was recently talking about going 8 lug on the front D44 because the hub housing is thicker and hub failures have often been attributed to flex in the thinner housings.
 
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I'd be more concerned about the rear 44 than the front 30, but I think both would be fine on the best trails around as long as you're not REALLY beating on it.
A built 30 will hold up to a lot more abuse than most give it credit for.

Paul
 
I think you will be fine with a well-built 44 up front (alloys and CTM's), and a 33 or 35 spline rear 44.

On Dana 30's. I've done several D-30's over the years that were ridden very hard with 35-37" tires. One thing you note on the ring gear is the contact pattern deflection. You can see the pinion riding up the teeth on the ring gear as the housing deflects. This is fine in a front axle, since it rarely turns under power on the road, but it will eventually lead to massive failure in the form of either a broken pinion shaft or (more likely) failed ring gear teeth. I think you can remedy some of this problem by adding a very heavy duty cover (like an OX) or trussing the hell out of the housing.

Of course, you still need to deal with steering and brakes, which both suck on a 30. I've been impressed by the WJ swap, but it definately doesn't move the steering up as high as an inverted T setup on a 44 with two high steer arms. The brakes on the WJ setup are very good, however. Maybe better than single piston 44 stuff.

Brett is absolutely right, 37's are in a no-man's land between a 44 and 60. Personally, I'd much rather run that tire on a 60, as it would limit downtime due to failures. The 44 stuff doesn't fail catastrophically, it just wears faster with big tires. Ball joints especially take a beating. Wheel bearings loosen up over time, etc. In summary, I think you can get away with 37's on a 44, but you must expect breakage. If you were to build a 44 with balljoint or kingpin 60 outers, I think it would be a real improvement, as your ground clearance would be very good, and those high wear items on the 44 would disappear.
 
Paul S said:
I'd be more concerned about the rear 44 than the front 30, but I think both would be fine on the best trails around as long as you're not REALLY beating on it.
A built 30 will hold up to a lot more abuse than most give it credit for.

Paul

I've got a 30 with 36" Iroks, Home brew hub kit from 44 parts (and lots of machine work...) alloy axles and Ox joints. I have had zero problems with the front end. Not counting stock UCAs at JV, what was I thinking?? Just pick your line, and don't bounce. My rule of thumb is the third bounce goes boom.

I've been on the hardest trails in CA, and Moab with this set up, and it hasn't let me down.......yet.

Take this for whatever it's worth.

-Dan
 
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