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Just overheated the Stroker Badly, NEED HELP

NHxj4x4

NHxj4x4

NAXJA Member #1132
Location
Keene NH
Hey guys,

I stopped into my house today to download a driver really quick for my Mother-in-laws PC. As I did this I left my XJ running. Unbeknownst to me the frikking heater control valve was cracked, or just cracked (6 months old) and was letting the fluid piss everywhere. So I get back to the Jeep (all in all 25 minutes like this) and the Autometer is pegged at 250, so I assume the temp was even higher than this. I assessed the problem, and went and bought a new heater controle valve. So I install that and she starts right up, no leaks. I top off the fluid as the t-stat opens. I notice that it is idling like crap, lots of vibrations, also a metallic noise coming from near the #1 or #2 cylinder. I get in and take it down the street, oh boy, doesn't run very good at all. kinda stumbles a bit a does a weird buck thing almost, although it is stubtle. Downshifting is fine. The exhaust smells like crap, which it didn't before, and there is way more "steam" out of the exhaust then what I have seen, although no smoke.

I only have 1150mi on the 4.6L stroker, I've been on cloud 9 all week cause I got the timing right, and she ran great, now this.........I'm numb right now, numb, I don't know what to feel.

Anyway, can someone please chime in a give me some ideas as to how bad it is fawked.

Todd
 
First, I wouldn't drive it. I would pull the pan and the bearing caps to see what they look like. If they are fine, I would try and see if the bottom of the bores are scored. Check the oil and the bottom of the pan for metal. If everything looks good, I would pull the plugs and turn the motor over by hand. Listen for scraping sounds. See if anybody local has a bore scope you can borrow. Also, pull the belt and see if the water pump spins smoothly.

If none of that yields anything, you have to make the decision to pull the head or just drive it.
 
old_man said:
First, I wouldn't drive it. I would pull the pan and the bearing caps to see what they look like. If they are fine, I would try and see if the bottom of the bores are scored. Check the oil and the bottom of the pan for metal. If everything looks good, I would pull the plugs and turn the motor over by hand. Listen for scraping sounds. See if anybody local has a bore scope you can borrow. Also, pull the belt and see if the water pump spins smoothly.

If none of that yields anything, you have to make the decision to pull the head or just drive it.
Click to expand...

not just driving it, no like this. I do have good oil pressure if that means anything.
 
I'm sorry to hear what happened. I had my own troubles with my stroker build-up so I sympathize.
I would change the oil altogether. I changed mine at 500, 1500, 3000. Then at 3k with regular oil for two more changes before switching to synthetic. Definately drop the pan and keep an eye out for anything.

Check main bearings and bottoms of bore for each piston. Pop out the spark plugs and get new ones. Taking them out will let you easily turn over the motor. Bore scope is a good idea. I think my vibration damper was 16 mm. Should turn smooth and consistently.

Check the condition of the plugs for the pistons in question. They might give you some clues to he problem if it is top end. The head would be in the worst shape I would think because heat rises and it has to deal with all the exhaust so maybe a valve burned up. Check all sensors for damage, disconected.

Steam coming out the tailpipe shows bad head gasket, or piston rings. Check the tailpipe itself for water or oil. Oil could have ruined the cat and clogged it? O2 ruined? Don't know how possible that is....

You could also cut open the oil filter and look for metal that way...
Good luck...
 
NHxj4x4 said:
Hey guys,

I notice that it is idling like crap, lots of vibrations, also a metallic noise coming from near the #1 or #2 cylinder. I get in and take it down the street, oh boy, doesn't run very good at all. kinda stumbles a bit a does a weird buck thing almost, although it is stubtle. Downshifting is fine. The exhaust smells like crap, which it didn't before, and there is way more "steam" out of the exhaust then what I have seen
Click to expand...

The symptoms are suggestive of a blown head gasket between the no.1 and 2 cylinders though I wouldn't rule out a cracked head or cracked block. Do a compression check on all six cylinders and if you find the compression down on nos. 1 and 2, you'll have to pull off the head to investigate.
Check the plugs. Coolant stains on nos. 1 and 2 will confirm my suspicion and this would explain the steam coming out of the exhaust and the poor running.
Check the oil as well and see if it's contaminated with coolant (it'll look like chocolate milkshake). If it's contaminated with metal particles, you'll need to pull off the pan and check the bearings for wear.

Best case scenario: Blown head gasket, warped head

Remedy: New head gasket, shave head surface, change oil & filter, thermostat, coolant

Worst case scenario: Cracked block, cracked head, cylinders scored, bearings trashed

Remedy: Salvage what you can and rebuild stroker using another engine as a core
 
Dr. Dyno said:
The symptoms are suggestive of a blown head gasket between the no.1 and 2 cylinders though I wouldn't rule out a cracked head or cracked block. Do a compression check on all six cylinders and if you find the compression down on nos. 1 and 2, you'll have to pull off the head to investigate.
Check the plugs. Coolant stains on nos. 1 and 2 will confirm my suspicion and this would explain the steam coming out of the exhaust and the poor running.
Check the oil as well and see if it's contaminated with coolant (it'll look like chocolate milkshake). If it's contaminated with metal particles, you'll need to pull off the pan and check the bearings for wear.

Best case scenario: Blown head gasket, warped head

Remedy: New head gasket, shave head surface, change oil & filter, thermostat, coolant

Worst case scenario: Cracked block, cracked head, cylinders scored, bearings trashed

Remedy: Salvage what you can and rebuild stroker using another engine as a core
Click to expand...

I checked the oil from the dipstick before work, it wasn't milkshaky at all. Still ran like poop. I'll pull the plugs tonight maybe, not sure if I'm in the mood, still mad abut this whole thing. I'll get a compression tester as well at lunch.

Now if the head gasket is blown does that automatically mean that the head is warped? Also what the hell is a bore tester? and when I pull off the pan, what are the bearing that I should be looking at? Sorry guys, 1st engine expirence.

Todd
 
I buried a 4.0 in the red for about 90 seconds once and cracked the head (between the valves number two if I recall). This was on a Renix casting head.

I'd do what everybody says but when you pull the head take it to a machine shop and have them check it out for cracks before dumping money into surfacing. My personal feeling is that if you're lucky you only cracked the head. With the steam out of the exhaust I'd be willing to bet money that you at least blew the gasket...

Sucks when this stuff happens so new but think of it this way... You really wanted the better head casting and port and polish, right? :D
 
GSequoia said:
I buried a 4.0 in the red for about 90 seconds once and cracked the head (between the valves number two if I recall). This was on a Renix casting head.

I'd do what everybody says but when you pull the head take it to a machine shop and have them check it out for cracks before dumping money into surfacing. My personal feeling is that if you're lucky you only cracked the head. With the steam out of the exhaust I'd be willing to bet money that you at least blew the gasket...

Sucks when this stuff happens so new but think of it this way... You really wanted the better head casting and port and polish, right? :D
Click to expand...

No not really, I wanted my Jeep to run. I feel like such a dumbass for letting it idle while I went inside, but I guess how was I suppose to know that the HCV was going to crack. I'm just bummed. I've been reading about the compression test, and it sees like that should tell a good story as to what happened. I'll try to do that tonight if my wife feels like helping.

What is the normal compression reading for a 4.6L stroker? Never tested it before. Any tricks on testing it?
 
GSequoia said:
Sucks when this stuff happens so new but think of it this way... You really wanted the better head casting and port and polish, right? :D
Click to expand...

Nah, it was just stricken by the mother-in-law's curse. ;)
 
250s not really all that hot, did you let it cool down before you added water?
A blown head gasket would explain everything, even the leaking heater control.
When your engine was new did you re-torque your head bolts after you ran it?
 
langer1 said:
250s not really all that hot, did you let it cool down before you added water?
A blown head gasket would explain everything, even the leaking heater control.
When your engine was new did you re-torque your head bolts after you ran it?
Click to expand...

250 is where my autometer gauge stops, and it was pinned there, betcha it was hotter than that. I never re-torqued, they never told me to (I ordered the stroker short block and built from there) but the last week she was running awesome as I got the timing set right. I did let it cool to about 180 before I added fluid, it took about 1 gallon.

How would a blown head gasket explain a broken, plastic, heater control valve? Are you suggesting the head gasket was blown before the HCV went?
 
langer1 said:
Combustion gases leaking into the water passage will raise the pressure, causing the weakest thing to fail.
Click to expand...

So lets assume the head gasket went before the HCV.

Why would the HG have gone in the 1st place?
 
Which is the chicken and which is the egg? Does it matter?
If the head bolts were new or they were reused only once, and they were torqued down in the correct sequence to the correct torque in 3 stages, they shouldn't need to be retorqued and the head gasket shouldn't leak (unless the head was slightly warped in the first place).
The heater control valve can break without any warning and when it does, it only takes a few minutes for the coolant level to drop and if the head doesn't have coolant flowing through it, the head will almost certainly crack (aluminium heads are particularly prone to this when the engine overheats).
Could be the excuse you needed to get that Hesco aluminium head you always wanted. ;) All you have to do is convince the mom-in-law to buy it for you as a late Christmas present.
 
langer1 said:
Now were getting into what came first, the chicken or the egg.
Click to expand...

I think it was the heater control valve myself, so I'm sticking with that.

Now again, lets assume the head gasket is blown, would that explain the metallic noise I am hearing around cyl 1 and 2? If not what would?
 
I think it was the heater control valve myself, so I'm sticking with that.

Now again, lets assume the head gasket is blown, would that explain the metallic noise I am hearing around cyl 1 and 2? If not what would?
Click to expand...
Exaust leak?
 
Dr. Dyno said:
Which is the chicken and which is the egg? Does it matter?
If the head bolts were new or they were reused only once, and they were torqued down in the correct sequence to the correct torque in 3 stages, they shouldn't need to be retorqued and the head gasket shouldn't leak (unless the head was slightly warped in the first place).
The heater control valve can break without any warning and when it does, it only takes a few minutes for the coolant level to drop and if the head doesn't have coolant flowing through it, the head will almost certainly crack (aluminium heads are particularly prone to this when the engine overheats).
Could be the excuse you needed to get that Hesco aluminium head you always wanted. ;) All you have to do is convince the mom-in-law to buy it for you as a late Christmas present.
Click to expand...

So would the crack be external, could I see it from the outside? I have a warranty on the short-block that could possibly save my life right now. Why Chrysler ever went to a plastic heater control valve, I'll never know, arse-holes.
 
langer1 said:
NHxj4x4 said:
I think it was the heater control valve myself, so I'm sticking with that.

Now again, lets assume the head gasket is blown, would that explain the metallic noise I am hearing around cyl 1 and 2? If not what would?[/QUOT]
Exaust leak?
Click to expand...

Doubt it, there is no noise at the drivers side of the block, but is it very noticable at the passenger side, right near the 1 and 2 cyl like I said. I just fear the worse here. You have Dyno saying 90seconds to crack a block, I did a full 25 minutes. Not many people have baked a 4.0 for that long, so I could have just totally fawked the whole thing. I'm so sad right now.
Click to expand...
 
Does your "metallic" sound sound anything like an old steam engine?

NHxj4x4 said:
So would the crack be external, could I see it from the outside?
Click to expand...

Most likely it would not be external... If you pull the head and can easily see the crack then it's REALLY cracked.
 
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