NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association  

Go Back   NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association > NAXJA's Technical Forums > Modified Tech Discussion
Register FAQ Users List Calendar Mark Forums Read
HOME Member FAQ Sponsor Info Rules Donate Bylaws Store Members Chat E-Mail

Modified Tech Discussion Forum for Tech related discussion for Modified XJ's and MJ's.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old February 22nd, 2012, 06:01
XJLI XJLI is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 13,526
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

do you really know why shocks are at an "angle" when used in "trophy trucks and big money sand cars?" most of the time, the shocks are mounted at an angle to pull more travel out of a shock. say a class is limited to a 12" travel shock (not limited by wheel travel) mounting the shock to "sweep" with the axle will net more travel out of the shock by using the axle's travel arc. lastly the guys doing this on "trophy trucks and big money sand cars" are running the valving to make up for the shock's angle; hell most of the applications you're trying to cite to make your shit not stink use a coilover (that may or may not be zero-rated) AND a big ass bypass shock on each corner.

do not think some off the shelf shock can do what a 2.5 C/O and 4.0 bypass can.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old February 22nd, 2012, 13:48
zachandandy zachandandy is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Patterson, Ca
Posts: 1,298
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

The shock dampens the same at any angle, if the angle of force being dampened is the same. Mounting them at an angle gives the axle greater leverage to overcome the dampening effect of the axle. Mount the same shock vertically in the same vehicle and drive it. You will feel the difference.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old February 22nd, 2012, 16:58
stroked88's Avatar
stroked88 stroked88 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Carlsbad NM
Posts: 874
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

The "effective" dampening force is lessened when the shocks are mounted at an angle for the same reason you can get more travel out of the shock by mounting it this way. Since the piston moves less in the shock for the same amount of wheel travel it effectively gives you more travel at the wheel out of the same shock. but also since the shock is using less of the stroke, it isnt dampening as much. Its basically "tricking" the shock into "thinking" that the wheel is not moving as much so its similar to hitting a smaller bump. atleast this is my understanding of it?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old February 22nd, 2012, 19:37
beakie's Avatar
beakie beakie is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,384
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

it would seem the OP has somewhat of an open mind, he came here looking for some help, received quite a few different answers... hopefully he can sift through bails BS and find the good stuff in between.

needless to say, to the original poster... skip bails' posts and go with those he is arguing against. as they say "don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience"
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old February 22nd, 2012, 19:51
Voteban's Avatar
Voteban Voteban is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lehi, Utah
Posts: 684
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo5 View Post
ive had both of mine on the back side of my axle since i built my xj and they work fine even though i get crap for the angle there at all the time i dont have any crazy axle wrap or anything
According to simple physics and geometry your shocks barely work at that angle.

Now read this: http://www.4x4review.com/Features/Te...7/Default.aspx

Also, in my opinion there's no reason to mount your shocks on the same side of the axle unless you're going through the floor. In that case I'd imagine it would simplify the mounts up top a little bit.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old February 22nd, 2012, 23:53
nismo5's Avatar
nismo5 nismo5 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: chico,ca
Posts: 157
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

according to the link above my shocks are about 70% effective right ? if there at a 45* if im reading that right then how is that barely working i would think under 50% would be barely working

Leaf Sprung, Front Axle

If you have a leaf spring, solid front axle with the shackles mounted in the rear, your shock absorbers should be mounted as far outboard as possible, but with a slight lean to the rear (About 1 to 2 degrees of rearward rake for every 2 inches of lift above stock, compounded geometrically). This is because as the suspension cycles, it does so with a slight arc backwards. Transversely, a leaf sprung front axle with the shackles mounted in the front would have a slight rake forward.
Leaf Spring, Rear Axle

Your rear shock absorbers should be mounted as far outboard as possible as well, and in as close to perpendicular to the travel of the suspension. Referring to the location of the shackles above, you’ll want to rake the shock absorbers forward or aft-ward appropriately.
Contradictions

We know that we don’t live in a perfect world and that the rules of thumb above may not work on your rig depending on a series of factors, typically the most prevalent being available space and needed droop (rebound). Regardless, if you try to follow the rules of thumb above as close as possible, you’ll be able to gain the most benefit from the shock absorber as possible.
Angle of the Dangle


Last edited by nismo5; February 22nd, 2012 at 23:58.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old February 23rd, 2012, 05:09
XJLI XJLI is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 13,526
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

whatever floats your boat dude. also, those shocks are close to a 60 deg angree.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old February 23rd, 2012, 05:26
MoparManiac's Avatar
MoparManiac MoparManiac is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Amherst, NH
Posts: 21,697
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

I'd say they're at a 45.

But they're also mounted pretty far inboard.

Either way it's the lazy way.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:14
nismo5's Avatar
nismo5 nismo5 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: chico,ca
Posts: 157
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by XJLI View Post
whatever floats your boat dude. also, those shocks are close to a 60 deg angree.
nope there at 45*
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoparManiac View Post
I'd say they're at a 45.

But they're also mounted pretty far inboard.

Either way it's the lazy way.
i call bs how is welding on new mounts on the axle and fabbing up a new crossmember for the top lazy

lazy would have been to leave the pos low hanging stock shock mounts and using the factory top mounts but i felt that it was in my best interest to move them up out of the way . where im from we do alot of rocks and snow neither one is a go fast scenario and i dont dd my heep either so they work just fine for me just sayin maybe cheap but not lazy
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old February 23rd, 2012, 08:12
ROBZ95Xj's Avatar
ROBZ95Xj ROBZ95Xj is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Keene NH
Posts: 18,153
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo5 View Post
nope there at 45*


i call bs how is welding on new mounts on the axle and fabbing up a new crossmember for the top lazy

lazy would have been to leave the pos low hanging stock shock mounts and using the factory top mounts but i felt that it was in my best interest to move them up out of the way . where im from we do alot of rocks and snow neither one is a go fast scenario and i dont dd my heep either so they work just fine for me just sayin maybe cheap but not lazy
Your lazy the not lazy way would of been to run them through the floor so there working at the proper angle
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old February 23rd, 2012, 12:33
Voteban's Avatar
Voteban Voteban is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lehi, Utah
Posts: 684
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

Fruit for nismo's thought, shocks help combat wheel hop, which is not always caused by axle wrap. With your shocks not being closer to 100% effective I'd imagine this would intensify wheel hop, which is bad, even in "a lot of rocks and snow". Wheel hop is horrible in the rocks, it almost always stops forward progress unless you're really hammering it. Throttle + wheel hop = broken parts.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old February 23rd, 2012, 18:52
nismo5's Avatar
nismo5 nismo5 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: chico,ca
Posts: 157
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBZ95Xj View Post
Your lazy the not lazy way would of been to run them through the floor so there working at the proper angle
no im smart enough not to cut holes in my floor for shocks that probably dont ride or work any better even in the right position all rough countrys stuff is crap if i had even some decent shocks i might have went a different direction
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voteban View Post
Fruit for nismo's thought, shocks help combat wheel hop, which is not always caused by axle wrap. With your shocks not being closer to 100% effective I'd imagine this would intensify wheel hop, which is bad, even in "a lot of rocks and snow". Wheel hop is horrible in the rocks, it almost always stops forward progress unless you're really hammering it. Throttle + wheel hop = broken parts.
this is great food for though although ive never really had any real bad wheel hop i could see it being alot worse if your shocks aren't helping
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old February 24th, 2012, 11:08
DanMan2k06 DanMan2k06 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Damascus, MD
Posts: 2,472
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

Christ I just wasted about 10 minutes reading this thread. Talk about physics/logic fail.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old February 24th, 2012, 18:50
Voteban's Avatar
Voteban Voteban is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lehi, Utah
Posts: 684
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMan2k06 View Post
Christ I just wasted about 10 minutes reading this thread. Talk about physics/logic fail.
I just wasted about 10 seconds reading this post. Talk about useful info fail.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old February 25th, 2012, 04:31
ktm racer 419 ktm racer 419 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: ROW DIALIN
Posts: 12,744
Re: staggered rear shock conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo5 View Post
nope there at 45*
and as the suspension compresses they get even less effective
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
JKS Shock Conversion karstic SoCal For Sale 21 July 6th, 2011 10:50
Shock question for RK rear coil conversion SwampDonkeyXJ Modified Tech Discussion 14 March 9th, 2010 19:57
Anyone using JKS rear shock conversion? sanjuanxj Modified Tech Discussion 6 November 24th, 2008 14:34
shock conversion-shock question bcmaxx Modified Tech Discussion 8 July 8th, 2008 11:12
rear lower shock mount conversion Kejtar Modified Tech Discussion 17 August 27th, 2003 00:30


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
NAXJA and NAXJA logo's Copyright NAXJA. All content/images Copyright NAXJA 1999-2014